Teeth maintanance

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Bronwyn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
2,956
Location
Guelph, ON
One of the techs told me that Elphie "really deperately needed" her teeth trimmed.

I'm fairly sure this has been brought up before, but how do we keep the tooth length down? They have their lab blocks, a ton of wooden toys and cardboard boxes to chew apart...oh and of course frozen peas. I tried dosing their toys in fruit juice to make it even more appealing but they kept growing. Do some rats just not chew when we actually want them to?

I don't mind taking them in to get them trimmed at all, I just would rather save them from the stress.
 
I am inclined to think that as long as they are the same length, they should be ok, as rats do tend to grind them down themselves. That is, they do if one isn't broken, as long as they are even, etc.

Dr Munn said to me herself, "Rat teeth always seem too long". Does the tech really know rats enough to make that diagnosis?

That said, beyond chewie toys and labblocks, I don't know what you can do to encourage them to chew.
 
I was going to ask the same thing, staff/vets that are not rat savvy will think that the teeth much too long when in fact, it's normal.
But if her teeth are too long and she's not keeping them trimmed herself, then she will need trimming every 2 weeks.
 
I have to agree with Moon/Dr. Munn.
It seems that some vets offices have a 'rodent checklist' that they follow for all rodents, no matter which species, and the number one item on the checklist is to trim a rodent's incisors. I don't know which rodent species that periodic incisor trimming would be appropriate for, but I know that there are times when doing it will be detrimental to the rodent - guinea pigs come to mind. For most other rodent's it might not be detrimental, but it is certainly unnecessary.
Rats incisors always look extremely long, but they very rarely need trimming. I have had 59 rats to date and only one has ever needed his teeth trimmed. Very late in his life Totem sustained damage to one of his bottom teeth which caused the corresponding upper tooth to overgrow. I had to resort to having Dr. Munn trim the top tooth. I guess there are also times when they are no longer able to eat hard food, or brux properly, that you might have to do teeth maintenance. Other than that, they do not need their incisors trimmed if they are young and/or healthy animals.
I'm sorry if you like your vet and feel confident that the care your rats are receiving is adequate, but one of the things that would make me not take my rats back to a vet is if they told me that their incisors need trimming. To me that is an indication of a lack of overall knowledge of rats and rodents in general. I have never had that suggestion made to me by a vet who has in an adequate amount of rodent experience.
 
Elphie had a scary case though :( Her gums were starting to bleed and she couldn't close her mouth. I know they always look long, but of all the rats I've owned hers were by far the longest. Brie, for example, had "normal" length, if not just a little bit too long but nothing problematic. She was checked out by a vet, the techs were merely passing along information Bev was too busy to give (it was mayhem when I got there).

I should probably add that the vet was merely doing as I asked, she just agreed it was necessary for Elphie. The bottom incisors were at least double/triple the length of the top, and the blood I don't think was normal in any way. Other than her, Bev's never trimmed any of my rats' teeth, so...I don't think it's fair to assume she's lacking in the knowledge department.
 
It's their nature to chew. So I give them baby blocks. But I figure if they're getting their food needs met then they might not be doing what nature requires them to do to get it so they don't have to wear down the teeth.. And that's not good, that when we're hurting more than helping :shock: .

So I make a point of putting (cooked) bones in their cage (asked for them at the table at Laurel House one day when we had chicken and soon everyone brought theirs so I froze them) But I never throw bones away, especially pork or beef, I bum them and put them in the cage. Tastier than kid's alpahabet blocks, it encourages gnawing.

I think teeth problems are relatively rare now, but they will become more prevalent as the generations domesticate. They might overcome other problems with the efforts of good intentful breeding, but is anyone paying attention to the effects of coddling?

Actually I don't use lab blocks (nothhng against them), but this is where I would tout them. They are hard and requre gnawing, and that is really good for kids that require constant wearing-down of their teeth..
 
If the teeth are correctly aligned, ratties will keep them worn down .. they do not need anything extra to chew on ... tho they do enjoy chew wooden bird chew toys, etc.

If the teeth are not properly aligned, they will be unable to keep the front teeth worn down. Their front teeth will need to be trimmed.
Caleb needed to have his teeth trimmed about once a week as his grew so fast ....
 
Thanks for the tips :D Elphie may very likely be one of those rats, like Caleb, just...not as often. She's kept them down since, whew! Well, so far that is.

Sorry it took so long to reply, I didn't have internet until yesterday.

And quite honestly, I was quite upset at the comment made about Bev.
 
I really believe that all exotic vets are constantly learning and will never know everything about rats. There are no courses that covers everything about rats. There are only seminars and workshops, journals and online vet forums to help them stay current and even then, they still don't know everything. My vet being an exotic vet, attends all seminars on small animals, has written journals, still learns something new each time we bring our rats in, sometimes learning from us even.
I do agree with Vanessa though, if a vet recommends teeth trimming, this would send a red flag and I would consider this vet less than knowledgeable when all along, she/he might be a very good exotic vet, just one that didn't get around to learning about the teeth not needing a constant trimming. Which in your case, it's clear the vet was only doing what you had asked.
 
I was not saying she's an expert or knows everything, I just felt that comment insinuiated she knew little about them at all. She wasn't saying they need constant trimming, she merely said Elphie needed it. And if the incisors are supposed to be of equal length I can only wish I had taken a photo to show you all what Elphie was dealing with. And hey, she stopped bleeding, so Bev did her job - she helped her.
 
Ok, here is where I am coming from and by all means argue with me on this all you want. I am not going to respond to it further – it is your rats and you do whatever you want with them.
I am always a 100% supporter of providing rats with necessary vet care in order to ensure that they remain healthy and happy and live the longest lives that they possibly can. However, I always balance the risks of every procedure against just how it will improve the rats quality of life.
I will only ever, EVER have any rodents teeth trimmed under two circumstances.
1. The rodent suffers from malocclusion and without trimming their teeth on a regular basis they run the risk of their teeth puncturing the insides of their mouths and causing life threatening damage. To tell you the truth, with this case I would rather consider having the rats teeth surgically and permanently removed based on their age and health, than cause them the stress of having them trimmed all their lives. I have only had two rodents ever, one rat and one Syrian hamster, that fell into this category. Totem, the rat, only had them trimmed once because he was close to the end of his life and he died naturally before he needed to have them trimmed again; and Abby, the Syrian hamster, who had to have them trimmed every two to three weeks for the remainder of her life which was about a year after I adopted her.
2. The rodent is no longer able to eat any hard foods themselves and run the risk of starving or dying of malnutrition. I have never had any cases where this has occurred, and I am sure that out of the 60+ rodents (rats and Syrians) that I have had there have been plenty where their teeth might have been considered longer than average. This has probably occurred most often when I have had an ill or recovering rat who has not been eating properly and whose diet I have been supplementing with softer foods because they have not been well. As the rat has felt better and recovered, they have trimmed the excess overgrown teeth themselves over time, and then gone back to maintaining them normally.
Over the years I have heard of many cases where people have had their rats teeth trimmed, necessarily or unnecessarily is irrelevant, and an accident has occurred during the procedure that has resulted in a tremendous amount of sometimes irreversible damage being done.
There have been cases of splintering, cases where the teeth have been completely broken, cases where the rat has had such extensive pain and bleeding that it was a horror show and the rat would not eat after leaving the vets office.
Those rat owners have either had to face having their rats teeth trimmed either for the rest of the rats life, in which case they have had the rat destroyed, or trimmed regularly for a considerable amount of time just to get them to the point where they were all growing normally and the rat could go back to keeping them maintained themselves.
Accidents can occur during this procedure regardless of how extensive your vets knowledge of rodents is, how many times they have performed the procedure, and the tools that have been used to perform the procedure. You can have the very best vet combined with the very best of equipment, and still there is a risk that you can do more damage to their mouths that the teeth really were at risk of doing prior to the procedure.
I would always, always allow a rat to trim their teeth naturally and try all other options for normal teeth trimming before having them trimmed by any vet. As long as they are eating normally and are active and happy, and do not risk having the teeth do damage to the insides of their mouths, then chances are that the rat will eventually wear them down themselves or they are getting along just fine having them a bit longer than necessary.
Now, if the rat whose teeth were trimmed was not eating hard foods properly, was acting as if they were in pain or discomfort from the length of their teeth, or were running the risk of damage to the insides of their mouths, then I apologize. It was absolutely a necessary procedure that the vet did.
Any vet that I would consider to be a good one would look at all other options before manually trimming their teeth because they are aware of the risks of the procedure and do not take it lightly. They would look upon this procedure as a last resort and not a first resort. It has been my experience that those vets that I consider the top of the line when it comes to rat care have always taken that route and left the trimming as a solution that was unavoidable in the end.

I just want to edit this to include one other thing.
Looking back on the very first post on this topic, it was never mentioned that there were any problems with this rats teeth, no mention of bleeding or anything was brought up (which I would not have failed to mention had it been the case), only that...
Bronwyn said:
One of the techs told me that Elphie "really deperately needed" her teeth trimmed.
Which was why I responded the way I did, and as strongly as I did, and I stand by my initial response 100% based on the information provided. Had it been mentioned, in the first post, that the rats mouth had been bleeding and she couldn't close her mouth properly, then I probably wouldn't have responded the way I did. Plus, I wasn't the only one who responded that they questioned the knowledge of the staff, so it is not like I missed some information or misunderstood.
If people want accurate advice, and advice that they want to hear, then they need to include all relevant information to obtain it.
 
That was very informative Vanessa. I totally agree with you.
I do remember once reading that trimming teeth is a tricky procedure.

In fact, I'd like to make it into an article and sticky it.
Unfortunately, not all vets are aware of "everything" even my vet would trim the teeth if I asked her and if she deemed them too long.
 
Okay, then I apologize for not mentioning the condition of the gumline.

I wasn't asking for opinions/advice on whether the vet and techs were doing their job properly, I was simply asking about keeping the teeth the length they should be as I've never had this problem in any rats I've owned. That's really all there was to it.
 
Thanks for the info Vanessa.
Caleb damaged his teeth, surgery didn't fix the problem and as a result he had malocclusion. I was not aware that removing his teeth would have been a better and safer option. (There are no exotic vets in the province of New Brunswick.)

thanks again for the info.
 
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