Spaying/Vets/Soy?

[Aida]

Topic #1:
So I have one female(Matilda), and know that it helps prevent tumors if I spay her. She's about 4 months now. Anyways, I have a few questions about it;

- Could someone give me an estimate of how much it would cost? My mom is a little iffy about vet visits now, after the really expensive visit with Charolette(Even though I payed for it myself. I truly don't know what the problem was. She owed me lots of money, so when Charolette/Matilda had to go to the vet, it came out to almost exactly that amount. I just told her to not give it back to me.). Of course, I'd try and get most if not all of the money itself. But if it's an insane amount, I don't think I could get it just from babysitting/mowing lawns. I can't really get a job yet, though I heard Publix hires real early... Hmm. That would be good, to earn a nice ratty fund... Whoa, getting off topic! :emb:

- I absolutely LOVE my vet office. They're so caring and kind and sensitive- I even got a "we're sorry for your loss" card after Charolette died, witch had a little message and stuff hand written in it. However, I do think they're a little expensive. It's 80$ per visit alone. I payed less than that for vaccine AND visit for my dog. o.e
But then again, they do seem to know what they're doing... What do you guys usually pay for your visits?

- What are the risks?

- Does it really help with the tumors as much as is said? I don't want to spend tons of money and stress over something that will have little to no affect. I don't have any male rats, so I don't NEED to do it.

- At what age should this be performed?


Topic #2:
So I've heard TONS of things about soy. I've heard horrid, terrible things, along with good things. I am so confused, and I cannot form my own opinion about it either. Some people say it helps prevent certain cancers/tumors, etc., so I just had this idea to stop feeding soy, and feed lots of other things that have the same benefits. That way I would be dodging both sides of the sword.
Anyways, almost no rat food blocks do not have soy in them. I found one, but it's like 17 dollars for a zip-lock baggie sized quantity, plus shipping. There is no way in "The Underworld" that I/my mom can afford that, so I'm just sticking to feeding Oxbow, as I know I cannot mix my own food. I just can't, for several reasons. What do you guys think? Also, does anyone have any legit research articles/web stuff about this? If someone knows some articles or experiments that some of us might not have access to because they're on those educational/research websites that need paid accounts, please still let me know. My school has accounts on a lot of them, for the students, so I might still be able to read them

Sorry for all the questions. I love you guys, thanks in advance!!! :heart:

 

[jorats]

Spaying your female is the absolute best thing... But you can't go broke doing it. So if you can afford it, go for it, if not, then you simply can't.
Each vet charges differently. A visit alone at my vet is similar to yours. A spay with my vet is $240.
If my rats were not spayed I would want to give them soy. Soy produces a type of estrogen which is not as strong as natural estrogen. But the soy estrogen binds to the receptors in your body faster than the natural estrogen and because of this they say that this gives a slightly less chance of a tumour growth.
I don't have the article on hand. Id have to search for it.

 

[Aida]

Spaying your female is the absolute best thing... But you can't go broke doing it. So if you can afford it, go for it, if not, then you simply can't.
Each vet charges differently. A visit alone at my vet is similar to yours. A spay with my vet is $240.
If my rats were not spayed I would want to give them soy. Soy produces a type of estrogen which is not as strong as natural estrogen. But the soy estrogen binds to the receptors in your body faster than the natural estrogen and because of this they say that this gives a slightly less chance of a tumour growth.
I don't have the article on hand. Id have to search for it.

Thanks, Joe! I'll try searching it up on those school websites, too.

How old should she be before I do this?
I'll call my vet and try to get an estimate, but I would like to wait off a while before bringing it up with my mom... >.<;

 

[jorats]

The younger the better. I'd definitely get her done before 6 months old but any rat I rescue at any age will get spayed at my place.

 

[MomRat]

Spaying your female is the absolute best thing... But you can't go broke doing it. So if you can afford it, go for it, if not, then you simply can't.
Each vet charges differently. A visit alone at my vet is similar to yours. A spay with my vet is $240.
If my rats were not spayed I would want to give them soy. Soy produces a type of estrogen which is not as strong as natural estrogen. But the soy estrogen binds to the receptors in your body faster than the natural estrogen and because of this they say that this gives a slightly less chance of a tumour growth.
I don't have the article on hand. Id have to search for it.

Yeah, this^^^ =)

The easiest way I've heard it explained is, estrogen causes tumors. If your rat's body is still producing estrogen, soy replaces it with lower tumor causing estrogen; if they're spayed, then you're adding estrogen back into the system.

That being said, Harlan Teklad has some soy in it, but I feel that the low protein/fat content in the 2014 is a worthy trade off for that, and we feed it to our spayed females as well as our boys.

Here in Chicago we have an amazing vet who charges $40 for a visit(whether we bring in 1 rat or 4) and $170 for spays. You should be able to just call your vet office, and ask what their fees are for spaying and neutering rats(also find out how familiar they are with the procedure!)

I too do not have the article to cite that I would like to, but I have seen the numbers for tumor reduction in spaying vs neutering to be something like, Neutering males reduces tumors by 2%(negligible) and Spaying females young reduces the possibility of tumors by 80% or so. It's totally worth it.

 

[Dazzle87]

Yeah the price varies wildly. I personally pay 100 total for a spay, but that is a very low price, from posts I've seen on rat forums the average seems to be a bit higher than that. Call the vet and ask like momrat said, but also don't forget to ask if they charge separately for the pre-op exam, meds, etc. so that you are not surprised when you get the bill/estimate! Also remember if you are "price checking" that cheaper isn't always better, it is always worth it to pay more if the better/more experienced vet costs more.

The risk with spay is mainly the anasthesia. That is a risk with any animal or human. It is probably slightly higher in rats because we can't do the pre-anasthetic testing we do for dogs, but I've had at least a dozen surgeries (six of them being spays, one neuter) on my own rats and many on my fosters and the biggest issue I've dealt with has been abscess.

The stats you may have been talking about are these? At the very least this site cites their sources which can be looked up and verified in the original articles:

http://www.ratbehavior.org/TumorSpaying.htm

I personally look at it as odds are if I don't spay they'll have to have at least one tumor removal or e-spay due to uterine issues (I've had to do two of those) so I'd rather do it while they are young and surgery is easier on them. However, I agree with Jorats that if you can't afford it you shouldn't do it, it is much more important to have a vet fund and try to save up now for any future surgeries they may need if you couldn't afford spays and regular vet care should they get sick shortly after the spays. I spay and neuter everyone now, but its important to have a vet fund.

 

[Aida]

Yeah the price varies wildly. I personally pay 100 total for a spay, but that is a very low price, from posts I've seen on rat forums the average seems to be a bit higher than that. Call the vet and ask like momrat said, but also don't forget to ask if they charge separately for the pre-op exam, meds, etc. so that you are not surprised when you get the bill/estimate! Also remember if you are "price checking" that cheaper isn't always better, it is always worth it to pay more if the better/more experienced vet costs more.

The risk with spay is mainly the anasthesia. That is a risk with any animal or human. It is probably slightly higher in rats because we can't do the pre-anasthetic testing we do for dogs, but I've had at least a dozen surgeries (six of them being spays, one neuter) on my own rats and many on my fosters and the biggest issue I've dealt with has been abscess.

The stats you may have been talking about are these? At the very least this site cites their sources which can be looked up and verified in the original articles:

http://www.ratbehavior.org/TumorSpaying.htm

I personally look at it as odds are if I don't spay they'll have to have at least one tumor removal or e-spay due to uterine issues (I've had to do two of those) so I'd rather do it while they are young and surgery is easier on them. However, I agree with Jorats that if you can't afford it you shouldn't do it, it is much more important to have a vet fund and try to save up now for any future surgeries they may need if you couldn't afford spays and regular vet care should they get sick shortly after the spays. I spay and neuter everyone now, but its important to have a vet fund.

Yeah, I do think it's easier to do it while she's tounger , too. It's not so much that I can't afford it. It's just that I'd rather my mom pay if it's an emergency, and I can't myself. So it might take a while for me to save up...

How dangerou s is an abscess?

 

[jorats]

For the most part, abscesses are not dangerous and very easy to treat.

 

[Kibble]

With a sample size of one, this is not a reliable survey, but Kiki is unspayed, over two, has been on soy-heavy food all her life, and has not had a tumour yet. I suspect she has just been very lucky, but it's worth bearing in mind that cancers are not 100% inevitable. De-sexing pet animals has a lot of benefits, though.