Sicko Spike & mixing meds

[rodentmama]

This is mostly moaning but lots of you have had similar situations. Spike, one of the Lake Echo Rats is quite ill with a URI. I didn't notice because there was no sneezing, no porphyrin. The big symptom was the weight loss and then when he started abdominal breathing. I work at a vet so I got him in and we tried a bunch of stuff. The Baytril/Doxy combo, added pred, thought it might be cardiac so he had rads and then a trial of cardiac meds. All to no avail. He finally had a gasping & blue attack on Victoria Day and I rushed him to emerge. They didn't know very much but put him on O2 and he was actually quite better when I got there. I'd given him homeopathic carbo veg and it helped but it doesn't last long. Just good in the initial emergency. He was sent home on Zithromax, with aminophylline as well as torb to keep him calm. The Zithro and broncodialator will conflict to cause too much anxiety so I will have to change it up.

I got a used nebulizer and was going to do albuterol and gentocin but it scares Spike so bad I think he'd croak in treatment. So it is oral meds, that freak him out so much he ends up gasping in blue (or he holds in his mouth and spits out). I'm now looking at injectibles, he seems to tolerate injection better then anything. Yay for me, I HATE needles.

Anyway this is mostly moaning. But I was wondering about mixing meds in one syringe for injecting. I can wrap my head around two injections a day, but with three meds to give that would be 6 different needles. I can't do it, not long term. Can I mix aminophylline with gentocin and torb in the same syringe to give a combo injection?

Theresa

 

[lilspaz68]

I do it all the time...use butterfly needles and a 3 cc syringe. First pull up at least 2 cc's of saline or ringer's lactate to cut the sting then draw the plunger down to make space. Use smaller syringes to pull up each med into them, then inject them into the bigger syringe. Push the sryinge to the top (no air), attach your butterfly, push the solution to the top and inject.

But before thinking of injecting, you could add baytril to the zithro, as that is a combo that can kick some serious URI butt. Zithro on its own just won't do much.

kisses to the sick lad

 

[jorats]

I feel your pain.
lilspaz has some great advice maybe you could try that?
In the meantime... (((hugs))) for you.

 

[rodentmama]

Actually my problem is that Spike needs the bronchodialator as well. The zithro can't be used with the one he is on. I bought the Gentocin to go in the nebulizer with the albuteral but it stresses him too much. So I figured I'd inject that as it can't be oral. He can stay on the aminophylline as a brochodialator, and probably can go off of his torb as he will be less stressed with the injection. Not sure if he will have to stay on pred for very long.

Thanks for the info Lilspaz, I'll see what I can do for him. The ER vet Rx'd the zithro and didn't suggest Baytril. He had been on Baytril & Doxy and it did absolutely nothing.

Theresa

 

[Marylou Mader]

This is mostly moaning but lots of you have had similar situations. Spike, one of the Lake Echo Rats is quite ill with a URI. I didn't notice because there was no sneezing, no porphyrin. The big symptom was the weight loss and then when he started abdominal breathing. I work at a vet so I got him in and we tried a bunch of stuff. The Baytril/Doxy combo, added pred, thought it might be cardiac so he had rads and then a trial of cardiac meds. All to no avail. He finally had a gasping & blue attack on Victoria Day and I rushed him to emerge. They didn't know very much but put him on O2 and he was actually quite better when I got there. I'd given him homeopathic carbo veg and it helped but it doesn't last long. Just good in the initial emergency. He was sent home on Zithromax, with aminophylline as well as torb to keep him calm. The Zithro and broncodialator will conflict to cause too much anxiety so I will have to change it up.

I got a used nebulizer and was going to do albuterol and gentocin but it scares Spike so bad I think he'd croak in treatment. So it is oral meds, that freak him out so much he ends up gasping in blue (or he holds in his mouth and spits out). I'm now looking at injectibles, he seems to tolerate injection better then anything. Yay for me, I HATE needles.

Anyway this is mostly moaning. But I was wondering about mixing meds in one syringe for injecting. I can wrap my head around two injections a day, but with three meds to give that would be 6 different needles. I can't do it, not long term. Can I mix aminophylline with gentocin and torb in the same syringe to give a combo injection?

Theresa

If you want to continue the nebulizing treatment, you can get hosing up to 100 feet, or more, put the nebulizer in another room then he won't hear it.

The few times I had to use it, I put the rat in a small travel box, covered it with a towel and had the nebulizer under the towel, it fills the cage like an old fashioned oxygen tent, I have tried my small animal mask, like with anesthesia, but they really don't like anything on their face, unless they are really sick or sedated.

 

[rodentmama]

Thanks Marylou. I have put the nebulizer to the end of the hosing but on this one (I bought used) the connector is broken so I'm not sure how it would behave with longer hosing. I know I've been nebulizing Moe with the albuterol and he does REALLY well. He hates it and tries to cover the nozzle but he does ok. Spike is so fragile I just don't want to risk it. I've done a couple SQ injections with him of just the aminophylline and he did SO well. I'm scared out of my mind but he sits quietly without a flinch. I now have the gentocin and will try the aminophylline and Gentocin together tonight with a bit of saline. The total volume is just .06 mls of meds so it really isn't anything huge. I really like the idea of the nebulizer because to my mind the mist seems soothing, but I guess for rats it may not be so.

Lil spaz, Debbie Ducommon's book suggests Zithro without anything else, I have Baytril so I could easily add it to the mix. Its just that Spike is on pred, aminophylline, zithro and torb right now. The poor pooh is a medication cocktail! The Rat Guide suggests the Gentocin with amoxycillin but Mike Hutchinson's protocol for the nebulizer is just albuterol and gentocin. I'm SO confused! If the Baytril didn't work earlier with the Doxy would it really do any good now? I really should do a C&S but I must confess that with all the meds, the nebulizer, xrays and an ER visit, Spike has tapped me out of cash for now. No money for a C&S right now, we are flying blind.

 

[rodentmama]

Well he certainly is a whole lot of trouble to maintain...five meds that have to be given twice a day, one of which is injectible. He tolerates the injections quite well but giving the orals is difficult. Sometimes he gets in such a tizzy I have to let him calm down or I fear he'll just have a heart attack. But by and large if he is relaxed he seems to be doing ok. Still a lot of abdominal breathing but other then that he seems to be doing fine. I don't have much hopes he'll get any better but he seems to be having a lot more good times then bad.

I do feel really bad that in my attempts to give him meds he now refuses a lot of his favorite foods. He can sense meds in something and just refuses. It sucks because giving him meds with the syringe is such a fight and if I'm not careful he just drools it out and wipes it on my bed. Thankfully, he appreciates his torb and will take that without much trouble. My little junkie rat.

 

[jorats]

Poor little guy, you both are fighting the good fight.