Shakespeare boys and girls.. boys are getting along better!

[hopefloats]

I am going to keep Sebastian in the rabbit cage for now. I cannot justify him having a whole section in a FN alone. I could with fred since I bought it for them two. I will introduce him to Choxi and Pixie once they heal up from the spays. The girls are living all living things luxury rat home. The girls are 3 1/2 months old so I think they are old enough to do intros. I waited on the spays and the size of the girls to grow since I dont like doing intros on such small critters.

I want to have these 3 in the 3 level FN with the rest of the boys. It is big enough to house them all. My boys are my concern at this point. I know right now it is fear talking since Fred's passing is still new. I am so lost on if i can neuter the rest of the boys that need it. Right now I am not sure who needs it but I am sure out of the 7 boys that are his brothers some will. I would like to get all 7 done but after this, I just dont know if i can. I am hoping that the girls being with them, will cut down on some of this search to find the girls.

I let Templetons group out, not one of his 11 rats will jump on the other cages. I am assuming since they have girls, they dont have to look for them? Like maybe that search is a huge factor for them?

My other groups who do not have girls all jump up on their cage. Only theirs so I am assuming it is from the girls being in there.

I am just a bit lost on where to go from here. I dont know if the girls being there will do more harm than good. Cause more fights. I dont know if I can keep these boys together if i cannot get them neutered. I dont know if any of it will work lol.

my major concern is intact boys with spayed females. I know it works but who knows if it is right answer I am looking for right now.

 

[hopefloats]

Here is the other problem I am facing with the neuters. I can hear myself saying. Next time I will take only one of the rex boys. That way I wont loose two in one day. insane I know but I know this fear wont go away with them. I am having a horrible time thinking how do i pick the first one to go? I almost feel like i am going to use them as a lab project with that mind frame.


I would be best to avoid neutering the rex boys. I just need to figure out how to do it. I just dont know that I will risk that again. Even if it isnt valid.

 

[jorats]

How are the rex boys? Hormonal? If not, then perhaps there's no need to neuter them. Especially since your girls will be spayed.

Can you break down your colonies for me again. Don't use names, that just confuses me. lol Like how many, f or m, altered or not in one colony and ages. And what is your ultimate goal.

 

[hopefloats]

Cage rubbing..puffy..fights...that tense feeling....

Templetons group almost all two years old..all nuetered spayed 4 boys 7 girls.

Dopeys group he is 18months one nuetered.. mostly year old boys...kinda grumpy boys with the youger boys
8 boys total

Freds group all 6 months oldish..2 that are 11 months old 1 nuetered boy but he isn't in the group..and two gilrs 4 months old spayed 13 boys total

 

[jorats]

Templeton's group, that's not a concern for you is it? They sound pretty established and content right?

Your third group, there are 13 boys and 2 spayed girls? And neutered Fred will be joining them?

The rex boys are 6 months old now? You could wait it out for them... the puffy tense feeling, that will continue for sometime without a neuter. But if it's manageable, a neuter is not necessary.

 

[hopefloats]

I was figuring around one year they might just stop...I am not concerncerned about templetons group they are the cause because of the girls they live with...it really seems to get the boys going. Fred is the one who dies lol sorry I was tryimg to point his group out sebastain neutered. And the two girls are the only fixed one that ideally I would like to see with the 13 young boys....

 

[jorats]

Oh goodness, I'm so sorry. I understand now...told you names confuse me.
They might very well settle down but then, they might not. How many are related to Fred? Are you worried for genetics or are you worried in general? What happened is not common. And I'm sure regardless of why it happened, I bet your vet is changing or adjusting her surgery protocol.

 

[hopefloats]

7 are his brothers and that is my big concern.

 

[jorats]

Wow... 7. Ya, I'd probably hold off and hope to god they settle down. Will these 7 be with the girls too?

 

[hopefloats]

I am hoping they can....I am hoping they will simmer down if they have their own girls in their cgae. I don't know if the death is causing problems or that I took him out two weeks ago and so many boys the same age means they all want alpha.. somes hearts I worry about cobweb and few others but till I know for sure I would like to avoid it

 

[jorats]

Having their own girls might very well settle them down. They are at the perfect age for being all screwy hormonally.

 

[hopefloats]

Having their own girls might very well settle them down. They are at the perfect age for being all screwy hormonally.

Sorry I was at work trying to answer and they all had to be put fast. Some of it was probably a bit confusing. With 3 colonies, I generally name each one after the "alpha" or the oldest. Fred's group was his group since he was pretty much alpha butt kicker. I still dont know who is alpha in the cage with dopey.

When the young boys are out, which is Fred's 7 brothers, sebastian, romeo (all 6 months old) the 3 - 4 months olds, and the two 11 month old boys. I totally forgot that now I have two neuter boys, sebastian and one of the 11 month old.

I think the problem is they smell the other rats. It is rubbing on stuff lol but some will do it while popcorning around, they fight and pin each other but other than Fred, i havent had any others that are leaving marks.

They seem to be HIGHLY affected by other rats smells. I literally spend half my night plucking these guys off of Templetons cage which has my 7 spayed girls. Some of them know the two girls are behind me on a table, so they go to the table to try to get to them.

They never once jump on Dopeys cage, which houses 8 males. it is only the one with the girls. Lear was kicking everyone butt when he smelled where fred and Sebastian was staying which is the top section of their double fn. I closed it off and it was fine from there out.

i am not against neutering but I think I will try to avoid it with fred's seven brothers if possible. I can get some of the other ones in there neutered but I think I might have to let my head heal. I just have to find a happy medium in the mean time so that I dont have to split them up. That is another thing that is bothering me that I did take them away and they lived unhappy for two weeks.

During out time they generally get alone perfect. On occasion I will have an uproar but honestly since Sebastian and Fred were removed, it has be about 90% quieter for them. I have a few that seem to get so lost in the moment that they almost attack other rats.

Tomorrow I am cleaning the cage out, taking freds smell out. I am hoping with the 3rd level of the fn it will give them a bit more space. I am hoping I can reintroduce Sebastian back into the group but I will introduce him to the two girls first then just work on introducing those 3 back to the 12 boys. which I cannot count either because I kept saying 13 but there i only 12 in that group lol

My other two groups are in harmony... I just need to figure out how to make this happen and not fear I will pluck them off one by one by neutering them till I can have those 7 checked to see if they have some sort of hereditary heart problem, which I know would be rare but as long as they sell cages, it isnt worth the risk of losing them like that.

 

[jorats]

The Fred group used to live with the 8 boys before you separated them is that correct? That could be why they don't bother trying to climb that cage.

It is totally normal for rats being determined and focused on the "intruder" rats. If they don't know the rats, they have this thing for needing to meet them.
This could go on forever and might not have anything to do with aggression or hormones. It's all part of colonies and territories.

 

[hopefloats]

All the boys lived together. there was 14 of them. They did well with the cage being cleaned and opened today. Romeo was a bit puffy but no fights. I guess I will watch and see from here out.

 

[jorats]

Ya, I think that might be the best course of action, keep an eye on them and if one of them becomes intolerable, then get him done.

 

[hopefloats]

It makes me sad, I really wanted them done. I just dont know that I can handle 7 waiting periods of surgery with them lol

 

[hopefloats]

The 12 boys are now living in the full 3 level ferret nation. They appear to be in harmony. I am giving them out time first and last. So they get double since they are so young and rambunctious. I let the other rats out in between them for their time out, then i let the boys out again before I go to sleep.

I think with more room and their out time being broken into to different times, seems to help them adjust!

Good thing for me, even though I really wanted to get them all neutered, I just dont know that my heart will let me neuter Fred's brothers. At least until I can have them checked over better. Even Angelo and Lear seem to be calming down, and those were the next two on the list of rats to do! I do see other rats dominating them, so I am hoping Romeo took alpha. I still cannot tell.

Sebastian is still puffy ball. I am switching cages with him and the two girls so i can work on him living with them till I can get these 3 in with the big group. I am hoping that his attitude was removed with his bad beads because if it is just his genes I will have a hard time putting him in with any of my groups.

 

[jorats]

Woot! I'm so glad the boys are settling down and you've found what works for them.