Severe malocclusion - surgery to remove incisors?

[toeberto]

Hi! I am new here and have a question that I hope someone on this board may have experience with. We have two rats, 4.5 months old, who we adore (of course). One of them (Sushi) has severe malocclusion. She was about 8 weeks when we got her and within a couple of days of bringing her home in December we realized she had massive teeth issues. Her bottom incisors were both growing into her right cheek and her upper incisors were growing into her upper gum on the left side. As a result we went off to the vet, who trimmed her teeth and taught us a lot about malocclusion and rat teeth.

If you want to see how bad Sushi's teeth are, there are some pictures on our blog at http://bentorats.blogspot.com/2011/02/teeth-trimming-pt-2.html

Since then, Sushi's teeth need to be trimmed about every three and a half weeks and this has been okay, other than our concern about putting her through this stress. However, on her last vet visit yesterday, we saw that her lower incisors have gotten very loose. So in addition to needing the teeth trimmed frequently, it seems likely that eating has also become uncomfortable for her with her wiggly teeth. As a result of this combination, the vet yesterday mentioned pulling her incisors and resolving both of these issues. (Note: her molars are fine, only the incisors are an issue.)

The vet explained the process to me and other than the concern about getting those deep roots out without hurting Sushi's fragile skull, it seems straightforward. She said they do the surgery in the morning, Sushi would be able to go home in the afternoon with pain meds and antibiotics and would probably resume eating soon thereafter.

According to the vet, this is something that we could do as early as when Sushi is six months old. I naturally came home and tried to do research online, but I'm finding very little actual information. I can find details about what the remove entails, but not any accounts from people who have actually gone through this with their rat and shared their experiences.

I'm curious if anyone here has experience with this. We are trying to make the best decision we can for Sushi's overall health and quality of life and I would love to hear any thoughts.

Thank you!

Sarah
http://bentorats.blogspot.com/

 

[Dazzle87]

Are the teeth wiggling front to back or side to side? Their bottom incisors can be splayed (separated side to side) which is normal.

As to surgery, I've heard mixed things about it. I have a girl with pretty bad malocclusion herself, although hers started much much later in life.

I do know that it is usually only a last resort/for very severe cases, since they are attached to the skull (if you look up rat anatomy, it is amazing how deep inside they go! We only see a tiny fraction of the tooth). I think lilspaz recently had a girls tooth removed, I'll see if I can find that post for you.

I'll also throw out there that since your girls teeth grow back rather slowly (many have to have trimmings every 1-2 weeks) light sedation is a possibility.

 

[SQ]

I have had many rats with severe malocclusion.
I trim them myself with toe nail clippers. It is terrifying but necesary as I can't afford to take rats to the vet every week or 2 weeks.

One of my rats (Toofer Jane) had one of her front teeth disappear. Nothing could be seen on xray.
There must have been a tiny bit of root left as the tooth regrew ....... in the wrong place.
It regrew into her head. She had to be pts as nothing could be done.

Removal of the front teeth is extremely difficult.
If a tiny bit of the root bud is left behind, the tooth will regrow.

 

[lilspaz68]

Her teeth never touch do they? Not even 1 top tooth with 1 bottom tooth? If so then I would go ahead with teh removal. it can be very tricky and sometimes needs to be done in 2 stages depending on how easy or difficult it is to remove. If the bottom teeth are already loose in their sockets they might be easier to remove. I have known a few people who have had it done, but none on here. I thought I was going to have to have Issa's teeth removed, but they resolved a bit over multiple trims and I only have to get her done every 4-6 weeks now.

 

[toeberto]

No, her teeth never touch. They turn sharply in opposite directions and while the vet has looked at trimming at various angles, etc., but the malocclusion is severe enough that they can't really do anything to encourage them to meet.

Thanks for the feedback so far!

Sarah
http://bentorats.blogspot.com/

 

[Joanne]

Hmmm, tough decision. I guess it depends on how risky the vet deems the surgery. If she thinks she can do it OK, then it would probably be better than continually putting her under anaesthesia.
My rat had a temporary malocclusion for a month or so. I used to trim her teeth with kitty nail clippers. (The scissor kind - less likely to get tongue/lip.)
If you could learn to trim her teeth on your own, then maybe it would be better to keep them. Does she use them at all to eat? Or do you feed her mushy food? If she is eating with them (at least when they're a reasonable length) then I would be more inclined to keep them and learn to trim them myself.

 

[Moon]

I have to say, I hate teeth issues but I loved looking at your blog, those pics were really great. What I could see, I'd absolutely the surgery. Those top teeth are insane.

 

[lilspaz68]

Hmmm, tough decision. I guess it depends on how risky the vet deems the surgery. If she thinks she can do it OK, then it would probably be better than continually putting her under anaesthesia.
My rat had a temporary malocclusion for a month or so. I used to trim her teeth with kitty nail clippers. (The scissor kind - less likely to get tongue/lip.)
If you could learn to trim her teeth on your own, then maybe it would be better to keep them. Does she use them at all to eat? Or do you feed her mushy food? If she is eating with them (at least when they're a reasonable length) then I would be more inclined to keep them and learn to trim them myself.

She'll be much better without those nasty buggers. It seems this vet is of the caliber of Dr Munn and he can do this surgery relatively easily. In the end it will save a lot of money, and future issues, like a shattered tooth, the stress of these vet trips, gas downs, etc...If she was mine I would totally do it.

 

[toeberto]

Thank you, everyone, for your replies. Sushi is able to eat hard foods as long as her teeth are in check. When we first got her, one of the indicators that something was wrong was that she would lick her food until it disintegrated. The fact that her bottom incisors are now so loose does worry me that she will begin having issues with harder foods.

We have talked to the vet about trimming her teeth ourselves but the top teeth have stopped us from trying. They turn so sharply that there isn't a lot of room to maneuver clippers into place between the teeth and the gums, and frankly I worry about hurting her.

I really appreciate your comments and thoughts and you've given me a few more things to ask the vet about on our next visit. We are fortunate enough to live near a clinic with multiple vets that see rodents (as well as Michigan State University's vet school) and if we do go the surgery route, I think we should be able to find someone who can do it safely.

Thank you!

Sarah
http://bentorats.blogspot.com/

 

[lilspaz68]

Ohhhh!!! Stupid me! I didn't notice you were from Michigan. Kaia of HVRR (Huron Valley Rat Rescue) in Ypsilanti, MI, is ONE who had the procedure done with her vet. You might want to contact her and ask.

 

[toeberto]

Ohhhh!!! Stupid me! I didn't notice you were from Michigan. Kaia of HVRR (Huron Valley Rat Rescue) in Ypsilanti, MI, is ONE who had the procedure done with her vet. You might want to contact her and ask.

Thank you! I will try to look her up tomorrow.

Sarah
http://bentorats.blogspot.com/

 

[M0onkist]

I think it's really great the care you're taking with Sushi - she looks like a total sweetheart, and her sister too!

 

[rhapsody]

Just so you know, I took a peek at your blog, and I absolutely love it! And Sushi and Sake are such cutie-pies. :heart:

Hope everything goes smoothly for your wonky-toothed gal!

 

[toeberto]

Thanks for the blog comments! We thought we would start a blog to detail our experiences with Sushi's teeth, with the thought that if someone else is in the same situation we're in, they might find it useful. It sort of expanded to be more of "a rat's life" on the daily exploits of Sushi and Saké. It helps that rats are adorable and photogenic!

Sarah
http://bentorats.blogspot.com/

 

[lilspaz68]

I PM'd Kaia to let her know she may hear of you and linked your blog to her as well. She's a very busy woman so might take a day or more to respond...she's a vet tech and runs a rescue as well.

 

[toeberto]

I PM'd Kaia to let her know she may hear of you and linked your blog to her as well. She's a very busy woman so might take a day or more to respond...she's a vet tech and runs a rescue as well.

Thank you! I really appreciate this.

Sarah
http://bentorats.blogspot.com/