Ryder is being a bully

[mia9_28]

I know it's been a while since I've been active on the forum.. I have been reading some posts here and there though.

To explain first: I got Ryder (the problem rat) and his two brothers from a pet store in Caraquet (small town). I told myself I'd never buy pet store rats... but they had been there since they were born and they were full grown adults.. the lady said that no one showed interest in them, so we took them home.

He's never been a problem with his brothers, but we introduced them to Yoshi and Diego and they are living together. For some reason, he doesn't mind Diego but is constantly bullying Yoshi. The poor thing is always hiding under the fleece liners and then Ryder actually purposely goes under the fleece to bully him.

Ryder pretty much just walks up to Yoshi and then gets all fluffy and bumps into him with his fat bum. Yoshi just stands there, pretty much hissing and squeaking. Yoshi then eventually gets so scared that he jumps over him and runs away. And then the chasing and the scuffling begins. :wallbang:

Also... one thing I find... is that Ryder seems to do it for attention. We wont hear them all night, or when we're watching a movie, etc... but if we get up to use the washroom or something, then Ryder goes to bully Yoshi.
We ignore them most of the time, but it doesn't stop Ryder from doing it again.

Ryder also does it during out time. Yoshi spends most of the out time sitting on my shoulder to get away from him.

Also, in the cage, Yoshi doesn't even come out from under the fleece to drink or eat. I have to give him food under the fleece and take him out to give him water. It sucks for him.
I've been considering separating them... but my girlfriend keeps telling me to wait and see.... but we've already done this before with Gizmo (who now has a lovely home with rodentmama), and I thought it would be different, but Ryder never stops.

I don't consider Ryder aggressive.. which makes me wonder if a neuter will even do anything. Should I get Yoshi neutered? Diego is neutered, and maybe that's why Ryder doesn't mind him...

Any ideas on what I could do other than neutering him or separating them? I don't have any money for neuters until September... so I need some sort of solution until then.

If I have to, I will, of course, separate them. I'm just wondering if any of you guys have ever dealt with bullies like him.

(Oh and they live in double FN, so I don't think space is an issue)

 

[jorats]

You should try a time out cage. Get a very small hamster cage and keep it empty, no bedding, food or water. No hammocks no igloos. Each time Ryder goes to bully Yoshi, pull him out say a firm no and put him in the hamster cage for about 10 minutes. Do this each time you catch him being a bully. During out time, each time you see he goes to Yoshi but doesn't bully him, give him a small treat like a sunflower seed or half a cheerio.
Give that a try and see if it helps.

 

[mia9_28]

That's a good idea! I'll be sure to take out my tiny hamster cage and keep it on hand. Thanks!

I've been considering maybe putting them both in a small cat carrier together for maybe an hour a day, and kind of force them to bond? I'm not sure if that would end well... or just be a complete disaster...LOL

 

[jorats]

That's a good idea! I'll be sure to take out my tiny hamster cage and keep it on hand. Thanks!

I've been considering maybe putting them both in a small cat carrier together for maybe an hour a day, and kind of force them to bond? I'm not sure if that would end well... or just be a complete disaster...LOL

That could go either way. Might be worth a try, make sure you add super yummy food in there with them.

 

[hopefloats]

I did a time out chair for two girls that couldn't comply with my rules. They hated the chair. So I used it to my advantage.

 

[odduckOasis]

This is a great idea. I have one rat who has been bullying quite a lot. Filbert (who is a pudge btw) mostly bullies my sick boy Almond. I figured I'd separate them and see if that helps (I have him in a separate cage atm, smaller, but I can cut down on his food intake too). But during play time, when I put them together, he still bullies. He'll grab a large amount of Almond's fur and skin and just pull until Almond squeaks in protest- he'll do it several times and then sometimes pin Almond down (like they do in play) but sometimes I think he's just doing it to be a brat, and Almond is too weak to stop him.

I have a small cage I can use for a time out. I think I'll give that a try.
GL with Ryder too!

 

[mia9_28]

I have been doing the small cage punishment... and at first I thought it worked.. but then it just got worse. Pretty much the second I'd put him back in the cage, he'd go right back to bullying him.. and now even Milo has gotten involved.

I think it's time I give the cat carrier a try... because Ryder just seems to be getting angry with Yoshi for him being punished.

I did a time out chair for two girls that couldn't comply with my rules. They hated the chair. So I used it to my advantage.

How long did it take for them to bond?

 

[hopefloats]

How long have they lived together? Is their cage big enough fo them?

 

[jorats]

A couple of days of cage out time is not going to do it and it makes sense that he becomes worse because he's retaliating. Keep doing it and do the carrier intros as well.

 

[mia9_28]

How long have they lived together? Is their cage big enough fo them?

Over a week now. All five of them are living in a double FN. I don't think space is an issue, to be honest.

I know it wont get better just with time because I introduced Gizmo to the three brothers a while ago, and they lived together for many weeks, but the bullying never stopped. (Gizmo was unhappy with males, so I gave him to someone who had females)
This is my second attempt at introducing Ryder and his brothers to other rats, and the cycle of bullying is starting all over.

A couple of days of cage out time is not going to do it and it makes sense that he becomes worse because he's retaliating. Keep doing it and do the carrier intros as well.

I know a couple days wont do anything. I'm just worried about it getting worse.
I'll do the carrier intro today. Seeing as Milo has started bullying Yoshi too... should I put all three in there? Or just Ryder and Yoshi, so the two brothers don't cuddle up in a corner, and Yoshi is all alone?

 

[jorats]

I'd put all three in there. Unless you see they are ganging up on him. Also, you can carry around the carrier so it's a little scarier for them, and that causes them to bond.

 

[mia9_28]

Hey. I have seen some improvement with the bullying. It hasn't stopped, but it is less frequent now.

Unfortunately, Yoshi seems to have gotten a URI, so I will have to bring him to the vet either tomorrow or Monday, depending on when I can get in.
The problem is that I will be going to Fredericton for a visit soon, so if I want to continue his meds, I will have to bring Yoshi along. I will also bring his friend Diego to keep him company, but I don't have a big enough cage for all five of them at my mom's. So in other words, I will have to introduce them again.

I was wondering... seeing as I'm going to Fredericton... should I get Yoshi neutered while I'm there (if his breathing is good) and then introduce them again in a few weeks, or would that just be a waste of money? I think that if Yoshi could relax a bit, that would piss the other boys off a lot less, because it seems like they pick on him because he's always terrified of them, and that makes it fun for them? Does that make any sense?

Or should I just neuter the two problem boys (I think I will eventually... they are way too manly, lol) and not neuter Yoshi?

 

[jorats]

I'm all for neutering all the males. If Yoshi is in good health, I'd do it. And then get the problem boys done too.