Regarding Intros and Bumblefoot...

[RKbusy]

Marley and Spook:

They are wonderful boys, but not without issues... so I joined this forum in the hopes that the more knowledgable can provide advice and help.

1) Apparenly they were both "rescued rats". Spook had been thrown out a window at some point and Marely was never really cared for (just left in a cage with water/food) The lady had tried to put them together, they fought (not surprising?) and so now they're in two seperate cages. I read it IS possible to introduce (or I guess in this case, re-introduce) two adult males (both almost a year old apparently), but then some breeders' websites say it's not possible... IS it too late for them? Spook gets all puffy when he can smell Marley AND he hisses. Marley just hides... he hasn't ever gotten poofy, but he does hiss back sometimes...

2) The lady had them both bedded on corn cob stuff and maybe because of that, Spook has these small sores on his hind feet. I googled bumblefoot, and it seemed this stuff called "blu-kote" works well to treat it. But in the images on Google, the sores are HUGE! Spook's are relatively speaking, tiny. I bought the stuff just in case, but I'm sort of scared to use it. Is there anything else I can do first to try to make him better? (I changed his bedding to aspen, then to carefresh cause I read somewhere that keeping his cage clean and ensuring soft walking surfaces can actually cause the sores to receed and go away on their own. No clue if it's true...)

Thanks in advance.

 

[SQ]

Wonderful that you have these two boys. :thumbup:
How long have you had them?
They are probably getting used to you and their new surroundings.

Yes, they can be introed in together.
There are established, gradual intro steps. http://ratfanclub.org/newrat.html
The first step is to keep their cages near one another but far enough away that they can not reach one another. This will let them get used to one another, you can also switch used cloths from one cage to the other.
Once they no longer show and signs of aggression (puffiness, snorting, hissing, pawing the floor, etc) you can move on to the next step.

Some male rats have too much testosterone which makes them aggressive to other rats.
This may end up being the case with Spook, but it is much too early to tell.
A neuter usually solves that problem.


As for bumble foot, blu-kote works well. Good that you are catching it early.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11083&p=152523&hilit=bumble+foot#p152523

http://ratguide.com/health/integumentar ... atitis.php

There are a number of posts on this forum about bumble foot and also on intros.

Also on trust training, in case that is also a concern
http://ratfanclub.org/trust.html
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11448&p=153527&hilit=trust+training#p153527

 

[Moon]

Holly pretty much covered everything!

Sometimes, even with a neuter, a rat will not accept other rats. A very unfortunate fact of life. But that's pretty rare, and often a neuter does the trick as long as the proper intro steps are followed afterwards.

 

[RKbusy]

Thanks for the links (and the amazingly fast response, Moon especially!). I've had them since April 23rd (so a little over two weeks).

I put their cages on the ground pretty close to each other during the day, when I'm at work. I don't know if that's too long a period or not (about 9 hours). Then I let them explore each others cages once a day. Marley sniffs and crawls around cautiously. Spook... he can't seem to tell the difference between his own cage and Marley's. He eats Marley's food, and drinks his water and lazes around in Marley's hut. -___- I guess neutering really is an option I have to consider...

Otherwise though, they're both incredibly nice.

How long should I persist with the "cages close to each other" thing before I can be sure it's not working? 2-3 weeks? Longer? Or should I just get him neutered?

@Moon. I'd read about that too. And again, I honestly don't know how and at what point I will know it's hopeless. After the neutering I guess?

As for the bumblefoot, from the links, I've gathered it's alright to use Blu-Kote no matter how early in the stages it is... I'll try some of the foot soaking things too. Thanks.

 

[SQ]

If you are putting the cages on the floor, be careful of drafts. Drafts can stress rats and make them ill. It is usually advised to have cages raised up on something.

I'd give it a month or two of cages side by side, before considering a neuter.
It will take the boys awhile to get used to everything, especially after everything they have been through.

 

[RKbusy]

Will do and will do!

My laptop can go on the floor >.<
I guess a month or two just seems long to me, but it makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Moon]

Even with females intros can sometimes take a few weeks, if not months. And sometimes you hear about the intros that go so well that the rats are together after a day. But that is NOT the norm and shouldn't make you feel bad. I am STILL in the process of trying to intro my three older girls to my three younger girls. Melody is being a crusty twit and having none of it

If Spook is going into Marley's cage and not freaking out, puffing up, and rubbing all over the place, that's a REALLY good sign!! Keep doing that for another week, and then you can try moving on to neutral intros. Like the link SQ posted, the bathtub is a good place to do this, as most rats find it frightening. Give them something tasty to eat, something soft that can't be carried like baby cereal, ensure, or yogurt. And don't give them anything to hide or play with. If the first intro doesn't go well, don't get discouraged! Keep trying. Daily intros are key.

And remember... when they are together Spook may shuffle his feet, poof up, chatter, and box or even pin Marley down. This isn't really what you want to see in a happy intro but it's NORMAL. If there is no blood being drawn then you are at a good start.

Have a towel handy to throw on top of the instigator if something does occur, and don't get discouraged!

 

[jorats]

I've never had a rat live alone, I've always been able to intro them but it takes time, patience and sometimes a neuter.

If you can afford it, I'd say get them neutered asap. The change in them is incredible.

Take it slow and easy, read their body language when trying to intro them. First have them living next to each other so they can get used to the idea that there's another rat near them.
Then you proceed to neutral territory intros, where none of the rats have ever been before. You might want to only do it for 10 minutes at first and perhaps longer the next day... it all depends on body language and how they react to each other. We can hep you every step of the way.

 

[RKbusy]

I can certainly afford neuters for both, although Dr. Liston (apparently he's THE vet to go to if you're in Ottawa) is an hour-and-half bus ride away. And I don't know who to listen to now!!

I've been continuing with the side-by-side cages (on the desk now!) and at least when I'm around, there haven't been any changes (but then it's only been a week and a bit). But now I'm not sure if I should continue... I had noticed ever since getting Spook that he scratches a LOT, and now, I've found little scabs on both his shoulders and one on his chin and I'm pretty sure he has mites. I can't seem to get my hands on any Revolution because everywhere I look, it says it's perscription only and for DOGS >.<. I'm currently seeing if I can get a little off a co-worker who has dogs, but it looks unlikely, because she says she needs it all as it's prescribed for 6-month periods (what does THAT mean?!)

I got "Bimectin" instead, weighed him, and gave him his first little dose yesterday. Also got this "tea tree oil" wash from a pet store and soaped him up (apparently I should do it every 4 days?). I tried to do it gently, since he seemed to really be afraid of the water, but I was all paniced about the mites and really ended up giving him no choice (oh, and even then, he didn't even TRY to bite me!). I hope I wasn't being too rushed...

Should I allow Marely to continue exploring Spook's cage and being so close to him?! They run around on the same "playing table" too. And I don't wash/disinfect everything between their uses. I've been watching Marely like a hawk and he doesnt' seem to be scratching more than usual, but still... should I give him the Bimectin too? Just in case? PLEASE TELL ME IF I'M DOING SOMETHING BADLY...!



On the other hand, I LOVE BLU-KOTE! I have little purple rat-shaped foot prints on my palms, but who cares?! It's only been 4 days and his sores have already flattened out a bit! OMG... I really didn't expect it to work that fast.

Also, Spook it great at recognizing his name! He comes racing out everytime I call him ^_^ (which makes me uber happy). He's also practically learned the "spin on command" trick (I still have to make circles with my hand). Strangely, it works best when he's not at all hungry... And I've discovered, he likes being scratched under the arm pits. He stays really still and starts grinding his teeth together whenever I do! *all proud of myself for making him happy!*

Marely is still unresponsive to his name. Although... he runs over to sniff my fingers whenever he sees them.

 

[jorats]

You'll need to treat both the rats for mites/lice.
The shampoo should only be a one time wash. But the bimectin, is that the horse paste? Should be given 1 dose, once a week for 3 weeks.

That's great news about the blu-kote.
I'd definitely continue to allow the boys to explore the cages. Also, the fact that both boys have mites/lice, this can make them very grumpy so once that's cleared, they might have a better temperament with each other.