Rat Toe Partially Bitten Off

[geekycanuckgirl]

I have two male rats who don't get along and have to live in separate cages. They are next to one another. A few hours ago I let my sweet Julius out of his cage to wander around my desk. He always goes near Dale's cage and they huff and sniff at each other. This time poor Julius got his arm pulled in by Dale. He started screaming while my back was turned and I grabbed him and pulled him away. At first I thought his paw was ok so I had him dip it in some hydrogen peroxide and then he started grooming it. Blood started flowing. Then I saw the end was gone. Frantically, I tried to apply pressure and then got some styptic liquid to stop it. He kept fiddling with it and it continued to bleed. I then tried cornstarch which helped somewhat but he took that off and it still bled. I distracted him with a bowl of ensure and the bleeding finally stopped.

I had Buphrenorphine on hand (it was prescribed for my cat in the event she was in pain as she has multiple issues at the moment but hasn't needed it yet) so I looked it up to see if it was something rats could have which apparently they can according to this site [url="http://rattitude.com/art...ttitude.com/articles/informati ... ats-et-al/[/url].
I gave Julius some mixed in Ensure. He's relaxed and sleeping now. I keep checking on him. Of course this had to happen on a long weekend.

I guess my question to everyone here is, will he survive this? Is there anything else I can do (aside from a visit to the vet) The tip to the first knuckle is gone from what I can see. I can't see any exposed bone as of yet. Is there anything else I can do? I'm going to move him to a single level cage so he doesn't have to strain his paw climbing. I understand that after bleeding has stopped I can apply Neosporin and offer Ibuprofen to reduce swelling. Right now I'm just letting him sleep and letting the pain medication do its job. I have some Bayril left over. I also have some refrigerated Doxy from February. Would this be safe to give him? I truly feel terrible about this. I turn my back for one second and my little guy is now hurt. :cry:

 

[SQ]

He should heal fine. You may want to put him on an antibiotic (from the vet), just to make sure it does not get infected.
The doxy you have is likely expired (usually only good for 14 days after being mixed). The baytril may be expired as well - it depends on the type.
I don't know about buphrenorphine.

The site you reference was posted by Mr.Rattitude. Neither Mr.Rattitude nor Mrs Rattitude know anything about rats and info they give is frequently incorrect misinformation.

Rats will attack other rats through cage bars ....
Rats are social and need to live with other rats.
It sounds like your boys may need to be neutered and then, once hormone levels have droped, be gradually introduced.
There are established, gradual intro steps that can be followed.

 

[victoria]

Rats losing toes in scraps with other rats is usually quite common and although it's scary because they bleed so much (and get really lethargic as a result), it's usually not a life threatening injury. I would not have used buprenorphine in a case like this, an NSAID like Metacam or ibuprofen would have been fine. Buprenorphine is a VERY strong pain killer and sometimes causes the rats to have pika reactions, which may an acceptable risk when it's given after an invasive surgery but it can be worse than the initial injury in times like this.

I'm sure your boy will be fine in the morning. Maybe from now on you can figure out a way to restrict access to the others cage while each rat is out, it's pretty common for rats to get injured fighting through the bars.

 

[geekycanuckgirl]

Thank you for your kind replies. I really do appreciate it. I have tried to introduce these two on numerous occasions using the advice posted here over the last several months. Julius was alone for a very long time at the Humane Society and Dale was a solo rat when I got him. They are both very attached to me. I work out of my home office and their cages are next to my desk (which I will now be rearranging). I realize neutering is the thing to do to curb this behavior but finances are being pooled into looking after my 15 year old CRF cat who is on 4 different medications and sub-q at the moment.

I attempted to put Julius in a cage with no levels but he got so stressed out and started to scale the hospice cage so I put him back in his own home. It looks like I can see the slight tip of bone exposed. Do you think this will heal? I will give him some pediatric ibuprofen tomorrow.
Thank you again. If you have any other ideas please let me know.

 

[geekycanuckgirl]

Sorry for the non stop questions but does anyone have dosage information for pediatric advil drops?
The bottle I have is Ibuprofen oral suspension 200 mg/5ml. Julius weighs around 0.5 kg. I'm unsure as to how much to give and how often.
(I'm so stressed out I'm afraid of under or overdosing the poor boy.)

 

[jorats]

I found this quote from Victoria from a past thread. Seems to fit your question.

There are two dosage guidelines for Ibuprofen, you're going with the higher one. If 40 mg is what you are trying to give (and you are using Advil Infant Drops) you would need to give 1 ml (at a concentration of 200 mg/5 ml, each ml contains 40 mg). I would personally start at a lower dose (say 15 mg/kg) and increase it only if he's not getting relief. (If he weighs 500g, his dose would be 7.5 mg or .19 ml's/cc's.)

Most of us use 1 cc or .5 cc syringes to measure medication, the one in the Advil package is way to big for rat doses. You can get them from any pharmacy, just ask for an insulin syringe behind the counter and ask the pharmacist to cut off/remove the needle. (If you have a sharp cutter at home you can do this yourself.)

 

[*Rebel_Angel*]

Oh I hope he heals fast!

 

[Aida]

He'll survive, no worries.

What everyone said, and also, a side note, Hydrogen Peroxide also kills healthy tissue, so it esentially makes the matter a lot worse(on humans and animals). Soap and water is better!

 

[geekycanuckgirl]

Thank you again for all your suggestions and help. I gave Julius some ibuprofen in ensure. (Thanks for the dosing info) His appetite is off. I will lay off the buphenoprine as I'm sure that has nauseated him. I gave him some bread before the ibuprofen dose so he'd have something in his tummy. I just attempted to apply polysporin to his paw but he squirmed around so much and then ate some of it while cleaning it off. So I took him out and applied it again holding him while he wiggled around. I was hoping some would absorb in that short time. Now he's back home grooming his injured hand.

Are there any other antibiotic topical creams or liquids that will absorb faster or penetrate the skin? I'm concerned that a bit of bone is exposed. It is a clean cut. No ragged edges or anything.

 

[hopefloats]

http://ratshackforum.com/forum/viewtopi ... oe#p400209

you can look at that post. all i did was give him some ibuprofen. He wasnt happy for a few day but they heal fast. I wouldnt put anything on it because they will lick it off of it and it can make them sick. Just keep an eye on it and manage his pain.

 

[geekycanuckgirl]

Thank you. Your advice is invaluable. Poor guy isn't happy and isn't eating. Normally he's a little piggy. I've been hand feeding him since he isn't really eating on his own. Hopefully like you mentioned he'll be ok in a few days. I'll continue the ibuprofen if he'll keep taking it. Would infant acetaminophen drops be useful in this instance? Sometimes anti inflammatory meds can cause stomach upset. Since he isn't eating I don't want to make it worse. But I am concerned about his pain. For myself I've alternated between ibuprofen and acetaminophen when I have a Tendonitis flare up.

I'm normally pretty level headed with things like this, but I'm especially paranoid having a sick cat also. I was up all hours using the search function on the forums here. I guess I'm just looking for first hand experience. So a big thank you for all your patience. :thumbup:

 

[hopefloats]

I never had a problem with the infant ibuprofen and the rats. You can try some ensure or some baby food that may bribe him a bit.

 

[Joanne]

Hi! I'm sorry to hear your rat has had his toe bitten off. I think it is a fairly common injury.
In regards to pain control, here is a link to the Rat Guide for acetaminophen:
http://ratguide.com/meds/analgesics/acetaminophen.php
Let us know if you need help with his dosage. He should only need something for the first couple of days.
In regards to antibiotics, my rule of thumb is If they can reach the wound and keep it clean by licking, then I would only monitor it for signs of infection, ie no antibiotics unless he has a lot of swelling and redness or any pus.
Because it is his foot, I would make sure he cage is VERY clean for the next week and remove things that would stick to it like shavings and just use fleece.
He will be fine - one of my babies had a toe nipped off a while ago and it didn't slow him down one bit.
Your boy may be feeling off because of the medications. I would just stop everything and see how he does, and then if he is still showing discomfort with that foot, maybe then try the acetaminophen.
Good luck!

 

[geekycanuckgirl]

Yes I have fleece and paper towels in his cage.
I may as well ask about acetaminophen dosage while I'm at it.(In the event he needs it)
Julius weighs about 500 grams. I have the Life Brand Infant Acetaminophen Suspension at 80mg/1.0 ml
I saw a post on the forum earlier suggesting 0.1 cc per 100 grams of rat. So he would roughly get 0.5 -0.6 cc? Though I think that was a different suspension.

 

[Joanne]

The dosage range is 100 mg/kg - 300 mg/kg every four hours. So let's take the middle of the range, 200 mg/kg.
If Julius weighs 500 g (0.5 kg) then his dose would be: (dose = X, solve for X)
X mg = 200 mg
0.5 kg 1 kg
cross multiply:
1 X = 200 x 0.5
X = 100 mg of drug. This is the amount of drug he should receive.
Are you with me so far?
Now we need to calculate how much medicine he should get, as the concentrations are different in different suspensions.

 

[Joanne]

So the acetaminophen you have has a concentration of 80 mg/ml.
Julius needs 100 mg of drug. So we approach it the same way, solving for X.
100 mg = 80 mg
X ml.......1 ml
Cross multiply:
80 X = 1 x 100

X = 100
.....80

X = 1.25 ml of drug.

Clear as mud? LOL

(edited to try and get spacing better, program doesn't like empty spaces...)

 

[geekycanuckgirl]

Thanks for the calculations
Julius seems in better spirits though his finger is still swollen.
Looks like a scab is trying to form over the end so as much as I want to clean it I will let him look after it. I'll try to get a photo up soon.
Again kudos to everyone for all the excellent advice.

 

[mamarat]

So glad Julius is getting better.

 

[geekycanuckgirl]

Just an update. Poor Julius ended up at the vet yesterday. His severed finger and paw started swelling rapidly so I was very lucky to get an appt with Dr Munn yesterday. He was very concerned about the infection spreading up his arm so now he is on Clavamox and Metacam. I hope I see the swelling go down within the next couple of days. He's having a harder time getting around because of it. His eating isn't that great so I've been hand feeding him. He's been a teensy bit better today after having 3 doses of the Clavamox, but the poor guy has diarrhea. No doubt from the medication and the plethora of baby food and Ensure he's been getting. I was happy to see him actually eat part of a lab block. Funny how the little things like this can make your day
:cloud9:

 

[jorats]

Poor little guy. You could give him probiotics in his food to help with the diarrhea.