quinners - update

[temblabamomo]

Quinn's enucleation was exactly 1 week ago. Since coming home, his ability to eat has gotten worse and worse. We thought in the beginning that it was hurting him to eat - hurt before surgery with that jaw muscle pressing against the infected eye, and after surgery because, well, surgery is just an ouchy affair.

I *finally* got a decent look at his teeth this weekend, and was horrified to see that they were overgrown. I guess with the pain of the past few weeks, they have gotten this way? The vet trimmed up the bottom incisors this morning - thank god they were not long enough to rub any sores or punctures into his mouth.

Home this morning, little man was definitely having an easier time lapping up soft food. Hard food - still not so much. He could more easily take things in his mouth, but it's like the actually biting/chewing movement is somewhat awkward. Even a week after his enucleation, is it possible that area is sore enough to prevent chewing? I also wondered if maybe, having been unable to chew proper for awhile, do his jaw muscles just need to sort of re-learn how to chew?

I'm also *slightly* worried about PT...when I give him food now, he will sometimes step into the plate or sniff at the food but not take it, just keep sniffing and searching for the food that's right under his nose. This only began the day he came home from enucleation surgery, and I keep hoping it is just the product of a) Quinn trying to find something he was actually able to grasp in his poor teeth/sore jaw and b) suddenly having no whiskers on that side of his head.

Poor kid was such a happy-go-lucky little boy before this eye thing started. Now everything just seems to be going wrong :sad3:

 

[Moon]

When it rains, it pours! I can't give any advice but I hope he feels better soon

 

[temblabamomo]

When it rains, it pours! I can't give any advice but I hope he feels better soon

Right? Back in early July I was thinking to myself just how lucky I've been that with 5 boys, none have needed the vet since February. Guess Quinn is just trying to make sure we fill our yearly vet visit quota. Today he officially became my most expensive current rat :? But he's worth it :heart:

 

[mamarat]

I've had a few rats who seemed to have develop PT after being under for an operation. And for some of them it was just confusion for a while. They recovered completely. Sending healing vibes to your sweetie.

 

[jorats]

Could he be holding out for soft yummy foods? What makes you think he has difficulty eating?
My fear would be the infection is really in the teeth... Now that would not be good.
Sadly, going under does progress a PT if there is one starting. Try pouring some chicken broth over a block and see if he eats it. Offer it to him while the block is still hard.

 

[temblabamomo]

Could he be holding out for soft yummy foods? What makes you think he has difficulty eating?
My fear would be the infection is really in the teeth... Now that would not be good.
Sadly, going under does progress a PT if there is one starting. Try pouring some chicken broth over a block and see if he eats it. Offer it to him while the block is still hard.

The most solid thing he's eaten is bits of muffin and some pieces of banana. He's having a lot of difficulty grasping them, and then most of the muffin crumbles as he tries to eat it and he ends up pecking at the crumbs, very clumsily. This only started after he came home yesterday, still woozy from anethesia. I didn't see him for almost a full 24 hours after his enucleation, so I don't know if he was so bad off from the anesthesia immediately after that, too.

Would a vet be able to see infection in the teeth when they're trimmed?

 

[jorats]

The most solid thing he's eaten is bits of muffin and some pieces of banana. He's having a lot of difficulty grasping them, and then most of the muffin crumbles as he tries to eat it and he ends up pecking at the crumbs, very clumsily. This only started after he came home yesterday, still woozy from anethesia. I didn't see him for almost a full 24 hours after his enucleation, so I don't know if he was so bad off from the anesthesia immediately after that, too.

Hopefully it's just the anesthesia.

Would a vet be able to see infection in the teeth when they're trimmed?

It depends, if they can open his mouth wide enough, they might see something.
Can you smell if there's an foul door coming from his mouth? I'm pretty sure you could smell it if there's infection.

 

[temblabamomo]

I have smelled his mouth several times, nothing noticeable to smell there.
This morning he barely touched his yogurt (he loves yogurt). I brought him some baby cereal and a bit of fruit, he wouldn't touch that at all. His urine looked slightly darker than usual, and he is quite lethargic. His stools have been regular and normal, so no trouble there. At this point, I'm worried about dehydration, it he's barely eating and not drinking. Got a 10:45 appt with Dr. H for this morning, Mom is going to take him. I don't know what Dr. H will be able to do for him though :sad3:

 

[lilspaz68]

Awww I hope it's not PT

 

[temblabamomo]

Awww I hope it's not PT

Me, too. Unfortunately, neither of our regular vets are in today, so he's seeing a guy who I'm not entirely comfortable with. He's a great doc and a great guy, I'm just not sure how deep his knowledge runs.

I still really hope maybe a 2nd bout with anesthesia in only a week is what has him so down and out, but the PT thing is starting to seem more likely.

 

[mamarat]

Good luck at the vet. I know I was treating Luna for PT after her kidney removal with Dex but she came back. And on postmortem she didn't have a PT.

 

[temblabamomo]

He didn't touch the baby cereal I left him when I went to work, didn't eat the fruit either.

Although his appt was with Dr. H, apparently Dr. F ended up seeing him instead. Of the 5 docs in the exotic clinic, Dr. F knows the least about rats, and seems to have some sort of disdain for them. When our usual vet sees my rats, he listens to them, checks the ears, eyes, nose, teeth, everything. Dr. F didn't even touch Quinn, he just sent a tech in to administer subQ fluids and a B12 shot, and told us to keep the recheck appt with Dr. P that is scheduled for Saturday.

Mom called to say Quinn is home, still not eating, although he attempted to eat some bluberries. He just keeps crawling into the corner and slumping over and laying there. Vet did note that when he stands, he very definitely leans/sways to one side. He had no clue if it was just from the anesthesia, or if it was neuro, and said it best to let Dr. P assess him Saturday.

I don't know what I'm supposed to do between now and Saturday morning. :sad3:

 

[lilspaz68]

He didn't touch the baby cereal I left him when I went to work, didn't eat the fruit either.

Although his appt was with Dr. H, apparently Dr. F ended up seeing him instead. Of the 5 docs in the exotic clinic, Dr. F knows the least about rats, and seems to have some sort of disdain for them. When our usual vet sees my rats, he listens to them, checks the ears, eyes, nose, teeth, everything. Dr. F didn't even touch Quinn, he just sent a tech in to administer subQ fluids and a B12 shot, and told us to keep the recheck appt with Dr. P that is scheduled for Saturday.

Mom called to say Quinn is home, still not eating, although he attempted to eat some bluberries. He just keeps crawling into the corner and slumping over and laying there. Vet did note that when he stands, he very definitely leans/sways to one side. He had no clue if it was just from the anesthesia, or if it was neuro, and said it best to let Dr. P assess him Saturday.

I don't know what I'm supposed to do between now and Saturday morning. :sad3:

he should've put him on abs and a steroid just in case its inner ear, PT or a stroke.. I am sorry you got the Bad Vet

 

[temblabamomo]

He didn't touch the baby cereal I left him when I went to work, didn't eat the fruit either.

Although his appt was with Dr. H, apparently Dr. F ended up seeing him instead. Of the 5 docs in the exotic clinic, Dr. F knows the least about rats, and seems to have some sort of disdain for them. When our usual vet sees my rats, he listens to them, checks the ears, eyes, nose, teeth, everything. Dr. F didn't even touch Quinn, he just sent a tech in to administer subQ fluids and a B12 shot, and told us to keep the recheck appt with Dr. P that is scheduled for Saturday.

Mom called to say Quinn is home, still not eating, although he attempted to eat some bluberries. He just keeps crawling into the corner and slumping over and laying there. Vet did note that when he stands, he very definitely leans/sways to one side. He had no clue if it was just from the anesthesia, or if it was neuro, and said it best to let Dr. P assess him Saturday.

I don't know what I'm supposed to do between now and Saturday morning. :sad3:

he should've put him on abs and a steroid just in case its inner ear, PT or a stroke.. I am sorry you got the Bad Vet

Well, he's been on doxy and baytril since Monday, but getting it into him is way hard. Used to be able to put it in his food, but now that he doesn't seem to be eating food, I guess we'll be doing it the hard way
I still have Prednisolone, from awhile back but the label says it doesn't expire til next year. If I thought it would help diagnose a problem, and if I could get it into him, I could try that.

 

[temblabamomo]

So we had our recheck with Dr. P on Saturday morning. So far, he has a slight head tilt, is a bit wobbly at times (but not circling), and can't/won't eat hard food. Dr. P acknowledged that it could be PT or some other sort of tumor up there, but he also didn't want to rule out an inner ear infection. I think it's unlikely, but I'm willing to let Dr. P run with it for now. We're stopping the doxy/baytril and starting clavamox. We also added metacam.

The meta is for any pain he might be having in his mouth. Ever since his tooth trim Monday, he's been rubbing at his mouth, and his front limbs are constantly covered in wetness...whatever it is, is also being rubbed over his face when he is washing up, and it's somewhat sticky. Dr. P managed to get a decent look into his mouth and didn't seen anything, but he wasn't able to look at closely at the teeth as he would have liked, and is reluctant to knock him out again to see. Is it possible his tooth trim exposed a tooth abscess?

Yesterday and this morning he was in good spirits, and has even gained back about 10 g.

Oh. Just a sidenote - Dr. P's clinic is really not big on giving steroids to rats. He didn't want to try a dex shot or anything just yet, even though I argued it could help dianose PT. I still have the oral pred at home, but am not sure it can be given with metacam, and I'm not even sure I should be giving it to him if Dr. P is looking to diagnose an ear issue.

 

[mamarat]

I think it's good that the vet is trying for ear infection first. My vet won't give steroids with an ear infection either. No he can't have Metacam with Pred.

 

[lilspaz68]

So we had our recheck with Dr. P on Saturday morning. So far, he has a slight head tilt, is a bit wobbly at times (but not circling), and can't/won't eat hard food. Dr. P acknowledged that it could be PT or some other sort of tumor up there, but he also didn't want to rule out an inner ear infection. I think it's unlikely, but I'm willing to let Dr. P run with it for now. We're stopping the doxy/baytril and starting clavamox. We also added metacam.

The meta is for any pain he might be having in his mouth. Ever since his tooth trim Monday, he's been rubbing at his mouth, and his front limbs are constantly covered in wetness...whatever it is, is also being rubbed over his face when he is washing up, and it's somewhat sticky. Dr. P managed to get a decent look into his mouth and didn't seen anything, but he wasn't able to look at closely at the teeth as he would have liked, and is reluctant to knock him out again to see. Is it possible his tooth trim exposed a tooth abscess?

Yesterday and this morning he was in good spirits, and has even gained back about 10 g.

Oh. Just a sidenote - Dr. P's clinic is really not big on giving steroids to rats. He didn't want to try a dex shot or anything just yet, even though I argued it could help dianose PT. I still have the oral pred at home, but am not sure it can be given with metacam, and I'm not even sure I should be giving it to him if Dr. P is looking to diagnose an ear issue.

You will know quickly if its inner ear or PT, all that lovely progress will slip away as the pred wears off. Abs and a steroid is the same treatment for PT, inner ear, and stroke. Its a good thing since the symptoms are often confused in the beginning and very similar.

 

[temblabamomo]

He hasn't had any pred since Friday evening, since he started the metacam on Saturday morning. So I guess if it's going to wear off it'll be doing it very soon, if it hasn't already.

He had a very runny stool this morning. I assume that's the clavamox, along with the soft diet. He's been eating a lot of fruit to stay hydrated since he refuses to use the water bottle still. I'm just so happy to see him show some enthusiasm towards food, especially since the fruit seems to be his main source of hydration, but I feel easing up on the fruit would help with the stools being less icky.

The good news is, his eye is still healing beautifully. He is very close to being able to move back in with his Obie. They've had a few closely monitored playtimes, but Obie goes right for what's left of the stitches. But it's obvious they miss each other. I think it would make Quinn very happy to have his Obie/pillow back (Quinn pretty much always uses Obie as his very own big squishy pillow :giggle: )

 

[lilspaz68]

Does Obie pull at the stitches, or pin Quinner down so he can examine them?

 

[temblabamomo]

I'm not sure, he moves so quickly. I think he must be pulling them, or trying to groom them/the scabs off, because Quinn starts protest squeaking. I can touch the area and it doesn't bother him, so I assume if he's squeaking that Obie is pulling at them. But it may just be "hey, stop invading my space" squeaking. There is just one more piece of stitch hanging out, I'm hoping it will fall out very soon or Quinn grooms it off, because it's the last thing Obie can chew or pull on.