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Demonardae

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
11
Location
Ottawa
I took in three rats (roughly a year old each) back in August from a neglectful owner, in hopes of them being companions for my (then) lonely girl who lost her cage mate about a week before. I've been trying very hard to get all the girls to play nice, but two of them, Courage and Fidget, constantly bite and attack my original rat, Naughty. However, after several fights and lots of scabs on Naughty I'm at my wits end. I do not have the means or room to separate the four rats into two groups so I would like to find a solution to where they can all live in the same cage (or if that is not possible a home for Fidget and Courage).

I'll give you a bit of information about the two aggressive girls and what the attacks are like.

Courage is a very aggressive and dominate girl and will actively chase Naughty just to attack her. Fidget is half the size of Naughty and she is very curious about everyone's parts and will chase Naughty around to get check her out down there.

So when Courage attacks she will watch Naughty from afar for a bit before running forward and pouncing on Naughty. She begins to bite and kick Naughty, who squeals tries to bite back, and tries to run.

With Fidget, she will see Naughty (or Acedia, she's not picky) and she will chase them down to lick (and possibly nip) at the genitals of whoever she catches. Now with Naughty, she(Fidget) will get very into licking Naughty.

Does anyone have any suggestions? These rats are driving me effing crazy. :(
 
How old is Naughty? Also, how big is your cage? Did you do a mite/lice treatment on the rats when you first brought them home? If not, I would do that with all 4 rats.
Fidget is playing and loving on Naughty, what she's doing is grooming which is great when a rat grooms! That's friendship!
It sounds like Courage is going after Naughty because she is in heat. Females will mount each other when in heat and that's when you see that back kick. Very normal in a colony.
Any chance you can take a video to show us what is happening?
 
Oh intact girls how I do not miss that. I had a girl who would totally beat up any girl that went in heat. We had 7 girls at the time. The best thing I ever did was spay them. Solved many issues. I agree with jo on the video. My girls took weeks to stop bickering after moving in it was insane. They would chase pika and beat her up constantly, once they simmered down and were spayed, they all just cuddled and had fun.
 
I will try to get some video (the quality will be crap I'm warning you now, lol.) of the workings. The cage situation is crap, but they constantly free range right now because the original set up was suitable for two girls who spent their time sleeping in the cage (I made sure they had toys, but they mostly slept in there.) But for the sake for not sounding like a terrible rat owner their cage is 40lx20wx20h with two wire mesh shelves (covered with a towel always) and a wooden bridge between the two. I'm getting a new cage next week that is tall instead of long and should be more suitable for the girls. Naughty is a little older than the three I took in, maybe three months tops. I worry about the Fidget situation because of how Naughty runs and squeals (she sounds down right pitiful and I always go get her). And I did a very thorough check for mites and lice (I treated too just in case, but that was cause I was worried about their previous living conditions. I used ivermectin(sp?)), but these scabs are rat bite size or large scratches along Naughty's upper back where she can't really reach.

I also wanted to get Courage spayed, but I can't really afford a 300 dollar operation, other wise I would've done that for Twinkie and she never would of been pts (she had pyometra and a possible lung problem). :( I'm really in over my head with these girls, I've only ever had three rats in my life before I got these three and intros were easy, plus they they loved each other after being together for only three weeks.
 
Ok so it's been 2 months since you've had them. Did you do all the proper intro steps?
BTW, the cage is a decent size for them.
Videos even crap should help. :)
 
I tried to do the intros properly (I stacked their cages and would lets them run around in each other's while I was watching them). After three days of letting them sniff each other's stuff I let everyone meet each other. I put vanilla extract on all of them and sat everyone on my bed (the only other place to do it would of been in the shower, but the bath room isn't rat proof and my room was so I figured I'd better be safe than sorry) immediately there was a fight between Naughty and Courage. I put everyone away and tried again the next day. it kept happening. So I would hold Naughty and let the other rats come up to her (I was trying to keep her calm and relaxed it was working well until Courage bit her on the face and drew blood) to investigate and say hello. She started getting on well with Acedia and Fidget so I tried just doing one on one with the nicer of the two girls. Naughty and Acedia hit it off rather well and they would spend nights cuddling with each other. So I tried doing that with Naughty and Fidget, after Fidget's initial assault on Naughty's genitals they would relax and snuggle. So after a few days I tried this method with Courage the fighting wasn't instantaneous, but within 20 minutes I heard squeals so I separated them. The next thing I tried was plopping them in all in a tub of water, they all piled together while in the water, but once the water was gone and they were dry, Courage was chasing down Naughty. I had kind of given up at this point (it had been a month already) when I was having trouble cleaning the big cage. I needed some where to put all the rats so they all went into Naughty's cage. I watched them closely while I scrubbed out the base of the big cage, but they never started fighting. Instead them ended up making one big squishy rat pile. So they went back to their cages for the evening and I tried it again the next day. Once again they ended up in a big squishy pile. After a few more days of this I put Naughty in their cage and I got the same results. Life seemed good for about two weeks. However I started noticing that during out time Courage and Naughty would have minor fights. Over the course of a month these minor tiffs quickly escalated into full blown fights.

Also I got a quick video of what happens when Courage and Naughty are by each other. I, sadly, had to put them in the same cage to capture this (normally the fights happen where you can't see either rat and I wanted to be able to break it up quickly.) Anyway, as soon as I can find the usb to upload the video to my computer I'll post it here.
 
Well you can tell by the looks of it, the one has not accepted her yet. Which one is the mean one? the one you put in there? or the one in the cage? courage seems scared of her. Naughty did she attack her on the bottom? or did courage attack? and whos cage was that?


How do they act out side of the cage on a neutral place?

My girls did that. I had to stop, take them out and do intros all over but they did end up living happily together.

I have a girl now that will not live with my boy, they fight, I just keep them apart and switch the nice one with them.
 
The mean one is Courage who was already in the cage. And yes a full blown fight happened on the bottom, as I knew it would so I broke it up before skin was broken. I know you couldn't really see it, but Courage followed Naughty down into the base (I call it a crap cage for a reason, it may be big enough for the whole group, but it's impossible for me reach someone who goes under the lower shelf) and there was a tussle. And it's the whole groups cage.
 
Are all three living in that cage right now? I'd separate and restart intros all over again. Each time Courage goes after Naughty, put her in a time out cage. Get yourself a very small cage, with no food or water, no toys nothing, no bedding and put Courage in there each time she goes after Naughty. Leave her in there for 10 minutes. Do this each time.
 
Alright. I was putting her in a smaller cage (it's a cage suitable for some growing babies not a full grown rat), but she would go in there all night. I was also thinking of maybe separating her from the pack for a week or two and try reintroducing just her. With out Courage around the situation between Naughty and Fidget has calmed down and there has been no squealing for two nights in a row.
 
Maybe change her name from courage to wimpy? or shy? LOL it is to empowering for that young lady.

She is a strong willed girl.
 

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