Pinky - Update

[adreabri]

Tonight noticed pinky had some significant weight loss and was acting crabbier than usual. I noticed he would just stop and hold his hands up to his nose or would rest his hands on the floor. He seems to go into crab mode during this time because if you touch him he squeaks really loud. Hes normally a squeaker but not this bad. So I picked him up and he definitely has some porphyn discharge around his nose and a sore on his lip. Maybe looks like on of his teeth is longer than the other and resting on the lip? I honestly think this is more than just a tooth problem. Would it affect his behavior like this? I don't understand why he goes completely still and won't move but to put his hands up to his nose. I gave him a cherio and he wouldn't eat it. My guess is that he's not eating. I'm not sure exactly how old he his but he is getting up there. He was a drop off at a pet store and the guessed him to be 8 to 9 maybe 10 months old when we got him and his brother and we have had him for at least a year. I managed to get a few pictures but they aren't the greatest. I could really use some advice here.. I'm really nervous for him.

Couple of him looking lethargic and resting on his hands and holding them up to his nose

This is the best I could do for the sore on his lip unfortunately

 

[adreabri]

So a little update. I got some apple butter out and he ate it right up so tomorrow i'll get some ensure. I also had some veggies out and he would pick them up and take one nibble and that was it. He won't eat a cheerio or a puff thing so I can almost garuntee that he's not eating his lab blocks hence the weight loss. I also found this odd. He got in the bowl of water with the mixed veggies. like just got in and stood there. His behavior is extremely odd. I've never seen him act like this before

 

[fenshae]

The symptoms you're describing sound like they might be PT. Rats with PT often act sort of confused, like they've forgotten how to do things -- they don't know how to hold their food, or they hold it and then put it down and forget about it, or they stand in the middle of their food dish without eating it. The paws also looklike they might be clubbing, which is also a classic sign.

Does he have any issues walking? Some of my rats with PT have lost coordination in their legs, like they had forgotten how to walk, or were partially paralyzed. Others would just walk in circles like they were lost.

I'd also check his teeth to see if there's a malocclusion. Especially if he's got any neuro balance problems, he could have fallen and broken one of his teeth, which could be causing some problems you describe.

I'll let others weigh in on the PT situation, but I've heard there's some drugs that help it. Prednisone can help with the swelling on the brain and there's another drug but I forget what it's called/what exactly it does.

 

[adreabri]

His teeth look good one just looks just a little longer than the other. I don't notice him having trouble walking he just walks really slow and will stop a lot and just hold still and sway till he's touched or someone comes and bothers him. Oh poor pinky..

 

[mamarat]

It could be PT but if he's stopped eating and losing weight, pain symptoms can also seem like that. I thought Luna had PT and all the time it was pain from her kidney. After the kidney removal she was back to her normal self. Good luck with your sweetie. Can you bring him to a vet for a teeth check?

 

[adreabri]

I called and they couldn't get him in until tomorrow afternoon so we will just have to see what they say about it. For weight gain should I also supplement baby cereal mixed in with the ensure??

 

[jorats]

You could add olive oil to the ensure. High (good) fat can help the body produce lean muscle mass.

 

[adreabri]

Managed to get pinky to the vets today and they believe it to be pt as well. They said his teeth were fine and gave me an antibiotic for the sore on his lip. They couldn't find anything else really wrong with him and told me to just keep him confy and try to get him to eat soft lab blocks or we could pts.. I'm heartbroken. He's my first rat... Feel like I'm just watching him die...

 

[crumbilina]

I lost my first rat to PT and it was awful. :hugs: Its hard, it really is, and there is no way to sugar coat it. I'm sorry

To help him eat, you can break up lab blocks into crumbs and mix it in with ensure. That was a huge favourite with my girl, she didn't like the soggy lab blocks when you put them in just water. If there is problems eating you could try feeding him out of a syringe too. See if he will just eat it right from there.

Did they give you anything like Prednisone to slow the progression?

 

[adreabri]

No they didn't give me any Prednisone. I'm not sure I would want to just slow it down. Wouldn't that just draw out his decline so much longer? Would it improve any or just slow the decline from here?

 

[crumbilina]

With the girls that I have put on Prednisone (other steroids can also be used, I have only ever used prednisone) I did notice a change for the first few weeks. They did go back to their *almost* normal selves and their decline near the end was a sudden one. By almost, I mean that they would still have little PT quirks, but for the most part they were able to eat baby food/ensure by themselves and be happy with their cage-mates for a little while longer

Unfortunately, it is difficult to tell how a rat will react, this was my experience, and I was fortunate to have an additional month with both girls. There is a possibility that the prednisone wont do anything. I always think it is worth a shot, but it is personal preference and ultimately up to you. What you think is best, is what is best, give him lots of snuggles and lots of love.

 

[adreabri]

I'm seriously torn, I don't want to make him endure another month of this but at the same time I don't want to watch him go and there's a chance that it won't do anything... I feel like I'm a bad rat mom either way...

My other rats must know something is up. Pinky almost always slept by himself and I catch him with at least 2 others rats all the time. Maybe they are trying to be comforting as well...

 

[crumbilina]

Don't blame yourself! Your not a bad rat mom at all - after all, you did take him to the vet to do what is right for him! Your current struggle is looking out for what is best for him. That makes you a good rat mom.

If it is any consolation - I don't think that they suffer when they have PT if they are kept fed and hydrated. They just seem... out of it, forgetful. It kind of reminds me of early to mid Alzheimer's disease. The patient generally doesn't feel pain as long as they are fed and hydrated. The family is usually the one that feels the pain.

Like I said, the decision is yours to make and quite honestly I don't believe that there is a wrong decision here. I only asked about it because your post didn't mention if anything was given for the PT.

It sounds like your other rattums are helping him, comforting him. Thats so sweet of them!

 

[adreabri]

Its a hard decision. We decided to not get the medication. Maybe its a little selfish but I just cant watch him do this for extended period. Went to walmart and got some baby cereal some strawberry ensure and some olive oil. Tonight we have him out on the couch with us relaxing and he's just enjoying the snuggles with me and kyle. He's been drinking his ensure through a srynge like a good boy. Gt some good pictures of him. He's always been a crabby boy its kind of nice to be all snugly with him

 

[mamarat]

Aww he's so cute.

 

[fenshae]

That's what I've done with all of my PT boys -- let it run its course and they peacefully passed in their sleep when it was time. I did try to get pred for one but he also had pneumonia (or at least presented with pneumonia symptoms) and the vet believed the pred would lower his immune system so we said no. I agree with the alzheimer's comparison. It definitely seems to not bother them as much.

Enjoy your time together with your sweet boy <3 that's the important part. He appreciates every second of time and totally loves you for being such a good rat mama.

 

[crumbilina]

Awww, Pinky looks so happy with you

Lots of snuggles and kisses to him!

 

[lilspaz68]

I had a rat contract PT at the same time as mine on RF. They decided they didn't want to prolong his life and didn't believe in medications/drugs for their rats, and I used the dex (with a good response). My rat lived for 8 weeks, so did his. But his lingered. If you do not try steroid therapy, then be prepared to let him go rather than have him pass at home.

Ever since Ariel (her case history is on ratguide.com under Pituitary Tumor figure 2 (I think figure 1 is Maya) I always try the steroid therapy because the change was miraculous in my eyes.

 

[adreabri]

So this morning I honestly thought it was a miracle. He was fiesty and cranky and I've never been happier to force him out of the cage before. lol. He ate his breakfast with vigor and his meds and whatnot but for dinner I brought him out and he wouldn't eat hardly any of it... =[ He barely got half the syringe in but i put him back in his cage and he started eating again so i'm a tad unsure...

Just have to see how this goes I guess

 

[mamarat]

They have good days and bad days sometimes. Just enjoy your sweetie day by day. :hugs: