Percy and Baxter intros

[Kimber]

I think MaryCayden may have had it right about smeeze boys having the ability to be evil when it came to intros...

Last night I tried an intro with them in the bathtub...awesome food, never used fleece blanket, and me. Put them in at the same time and watched carefully. Percy was puffed up (looked like a Jim Henson creature) but the two of them ate their food and had a few sniffs. About 5 minutes in, Percy started sidling up to Baxter pushing him with his bum and they had a quick ratball, but no one was injured; however, Baxter was terrified, huggin my hand and staring at me with huge 'please don't let him hurt me' eyes. He figured he could jump out of the tub and wouldn't stay in after that. I made him stay in and didn't let Percy at him for a few minutes and then broke them up. I put them in each other's cages for a while and at night shipped them back in their own.

Today when I came home from work I switched them into the other's cage, gave out some food and they stayed like that for a couple hours. Decided to try an intro in the spare room where Percy hasn't been and blocked off an area that I could stay in with them. They were in for about 5 minutes (there was some sniffing, Baxter stayed as close to me as he could) when Percy launched on Baxter again in a little ratball...I broke it up, dominated Percy and then looked for Baxter - he had climbed up the INSIDE of my pantleg to get away. :giggle:

There were no marks at all on him and Percy wasn't all puffed up so I decided to take a deep breath and continue...poor Baxter was hugging my hand not wanting me to let go. They were good for about another 5-7 minutes before Percy came over, bum shoved him and then launched on top again. There was a fight and Baxter got a nick on his back (nothing serious, but there was a little blood). I dominated Percy again, scooped Baxter up on my shoulder and stepped over the barricade...turn around and Percy is rubbing himself over every available surface, dragging himself on the carpet and making everything HIS.

I'm starting to wonder if I am going to have to get his boy bits bagged...I don't mind taking my time, following the steps, etc., but I don't want Baxter getting the brunt of it each time plus I am hoping to have to opportunity to intro Jack and Francis into the mix as well. I think Baxter would love some friends.

:gaah:

 

[jorats]

I'll recommend that you don't let Percy get to Baxter. Each time Percy goes near Baxter push him away. Do this a few times then let them sniff each other. How does Percy react when you dominate him?

 

[SQ]

The first step to intros, is to let them get used to one anothers smell by putting cages near one another, exchanging cloths, and letting them explore one another's cages when the occupant isn't home.
Once they are able to do this without showing signs of aggression, then move to neutral territory intros.

The only rats I have ever been able to just put together in a neutral area have been babies.

 

[Kimber]

If I dominate Percy he squeaks and tries to get away from me, but generally he will just accept it when I do it. He never transfers any of the aggression/dominance onto me.

I don't have any issues with them being in each others cages. Baxter wanders around the cage, eats some stuff, explores and then settles in the spudnik or on the ground to sleep. Percy went straight in, had a sniff and then settled in the hammock to sleep...when I return them to their own cages they act just like when I am returning them from out time. Their cages are beside each other in the diningroom and they have no issues smelling and seeing each other.

Should I give them a few days and then try again on the weekend? If I push him away a bunch Jo, and then let them sniff each other, how much dominant behaviour do I accept when they're sniffing each other? Baxter definitely doesn't show any aggression and while I know they have to figure it out a little on their own I don't want Baxter put in any real danger.

 

[jorats]

For now don't allow any bullying from Percy. This sounds like it's going to work, Percy is not aggressive. I would not hold off on the intro, the more they meet the more than can start to bond.

 

[Kimber]

So if Percy squeaks, sidles sideways, puffs or anything I push him away? I'm acting as the dominant one in place of Baxter standing up for himself? Do I wait for a certain amount of time or a certain behaviour form Percy before I stop the intro for the day? Can I do it in the spare room again or has Percy made it his own today too much for it to be neutral anymore?

Gah, I don't mind doing them but I feel bad if Baxter has to take more of this...poor little bugger is nothing but friendly.

 

[jorats]

You are going to make yourself the third rat. I'd do it in the spare room, someplace comfortable for the three of you. You will pet Baxter if you feel he's getting worried, and push Percy away each time he so much as thinks about touching Baxter. Don't forget to pick up Percy every once in a while and give him a big smooch too.
When you pet Baxter, put some gentle firmness in a full body pet, same with Percy. This usually helps them calm down.

 

[Moon]

When you pet Baxter, put some gentle firmness in a full body pet, same with Percy. This usually helps them calm down.

This is a good tip for all animals. Start and one end and go slowly but firmly all the way to the other end.

 

[Kimber]

Well we had our intro for the night...I put down a bowl with ensure, settled myself in and got ready.

Percy went off exploring like usual and Baxter crawled up on me and settled on my lap. Whenever Percy would trundle by, Baxter wouldn't even move a whisker, but didn't freak out. Percy could smell him, but couldn't find him. Baxter spent the entire time up on me and it took about 10 minutes for Percy to even try climbing onto my lap. Everytime he'd get up to Baxter to sniff him I gently pushed him away. A few times he came back again and again, but most times he just wander off. The one thing I did notice is that Percy is rubbing himself on everything (marking it) but he started doing it to me when I was sitting there. Should I discourage the rubbing on me?

Percy had a few moments where if I pet his bum he'd start to bum push, but ever so slightly so I would push him away and just talk to him. He didn't puff up at all, but he didn't really have much interaction with Baxter either. Percy is now running around in the bathroom and Baxter is eating chicken casserole babyfood in Percy's cage so I think I'll call tonight a success

 

[jorats]

That was good. Next time not so much Baxter on you. And don't ever let Percy rub you.

 

[Kimber]

I figured that it was a bad thing that he rubbed up against me like that...no more of that then!

Any tips on how to keep a nervous youngster off you during intros? He will literally crawl and squeeze his way onto me and if I try and lift him off and onto the ground he holds on with his little arms and will stand straight up (or hang) with this horrible "mummy don't leave me" look on his face...ugh, I'm such a wimp lol. I was just hoping there was some other way to keep him off me apart from breaking his little heart over and over again.

Could I let him out in there by himself so he'll explore and get used to it? I don't think he'd ever get territorial

 

[jorats]

lol... you really aren't breaking his heart cause that's not how he looks at it. He's thinking, gotta get height. When picked off of his height, he's thinking, what? where's my height and not Oh you mean mommy how can you do this to me.

I'd definitely give Baxter first chance at exploring the space before Percy joins, the goal is to not let Percy claim the area.
You could stay on your knees and each time Baxter tries to climb, you pick him up, give him a kiss, say NO and put back down and gently move him away from you.

 

[Kimber]

Will be on the move tonight delivering ratties (from MaryCayden to CB) so that's about 8 hours of driving....will do another intro tomorrow I think. Will switch their cages while we're gone though.