Opinions on Behaviour and Fighting

[lilspaz68]

I heard screams from the Sugah's FN (typical) but there was extra urgency this time. Went to check it out and heard serious scuffling. Opened the door and found Tepeu and Jaffa reared up nose to nose and Tepeu forcing Jaffa back. I broke it up. Took me a bit but I finally got my hands on a terrified little Jaffa girl. I'm holding her and she's still screaming. She used to be a bit of a nutter as a baby but has settled down well and is rather sweet.
Tepeu on the other hand has become more and more of a bully...she gets puffed up, chatters her teeth and really scares some of the other cage inhabitants. She had NO injuries except a very small spot on her back.
Jaffa on the other hand...

This is one of those slices that open up over the muscle, notice her lip gashed open

and here the wounds on her lip and chin

I got some metacam into her and put her back in her cage (she wanted to be there).
Tepeu is now in a small cage on her own.

I *think* I have another Moth in my life. She acts identically, she bullies and harrasses, when she does bite its to severely maim. :undecided:

I always wondered if I should've spayed Moth, but at that time I didn't "do" spays. I know females settle down a lot after a spay. Maybe it would help some of the nervous energy? I get the same vibe from Tepeu as I did with Moth, have for months but was hoping it wouldn't escalate. BUT they are both from the same PJ's rat mill :doh:

So what do you think? Try spaying Tepeu? She's a tilty but her health is good.

 

[jorats]

How long have they been living together? How old are the two?

 

[lilspaz68]

How long have they been living together? How old are the two?

Jaffa is 14 months and has been here since she was about 3-4 months
Tepeu is 11 months and has been here since ummm...7-8 weeks....they have lived together for about 9 months then.

I often find Tepeu harrassing someone but there's never been a serious bite like this.

 

[jorats]

Could this have been a freak thing?
I think I would put her back in and watch the dynamics of that cage more closely.
A spay is tricky, there is no guarantee that it will settle her down... It did work on 3 females but not on a few more.

 

[lilspaz68]

Could this have been a freak thing?
I think I would put her back in and watch the dynamics of that cage more closely.
A spay is tricky, there is no guarantee that it will settle her down... It did work on 3 females but not on a few more.

I have been watching her carefully for awhile...she's a terrible bully. The timid Sugah's are terrified of her when she gets in her moods...she chases rats, I have broken up wrestling matches etc. This was barely acceptable but there was no bloodshed, until tonight. Poor sweetie was shaking, Pez hides...

She's had Marley and Fred pinned and screaming before, but she's calm again, so she's back in her cage. ANY funny stuff and she's outta there again. I'll keep a timeout cage ready to go.

I know there's no guarantee with a spay but it might give her a chance at a happier life...she looks very upset and unhappy when she has her fits of rage.

 

[jorats]

She sounds neurotic. My Nessie was neurotic like that and she was spayed. The only thing that changed her was the loss of her cage mates, when there was a major shift in the cage.
There has been some bullying going on in my boys cage but with them it's all hormones. Benjamin was sliced in the neck like Jaffa but it was more of a "oops"... instead of sitting there taking the power groom, Benji decided to get the hell out of there so he got sliced. Which is what prompted me to start neutering the boys.

 

[lilspaz68]

I checked in, and found Jaffa in heat and Tepeu following her around again.

 

[jorats]

Damn... she doesn't like it when they are stressing?
Is Jaffa afraid of Tepeu?

 

[lilspaz68]

Damn... she doesn't like it when they are stressing?
Is Jaffa afraid of Tepeu?

Right now, yes. Normally they avoid each other...I have never seen those 2 cuddlings, then again, Teppy sleeps with whomever.

 

[Moon]

Awww pretty Teppy.... why you be such a bad girl! Auntie Moon told you to be a good girl!

 

[lilspaz68]

I am going to remove the hardware cloth today, I think they are all too big to squeeze through now, and I can observe the behavioural nuances better. I have a cage (with door open) ready for Teppy timeouts. I'd like to leave her in there since they are her cagemates until I sort out the spay.

 

[ryelle]

wow thats nasty. Is poor Jaffa's lip split all the way through?

 

[lilspaz68]

wow thats nasty. Is poor Jaffa's lip split all the way through?

Yep but rats heal well, so it should pull together and heal fine. She ate her breakfast oatmeal with no issues and isn't exhibiting signs of pain today. I just don't like how close to the throat that was...it may have been a non-deliberate kill bite, but it could've done some serious damage or made her bleed to death if she'd nicked something in her neck. :shock:

 

[jorats]

I have found that a time out cage works pretty good most times. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she was just having an off time.

Jaffa will heal fast. I've had a few with split lip. Silly rambunctious rats.

 

[mamarat]

My tilty House has these "attacks" too every once in a while. He gets mean to his cagemates. Still can't figure out what sets him off although Morris can be an instigator sometimes.

 

[lilspaz68]

My tilty House has these "attacks" too every once in a while. He gets mean to his cagemates. Still can't figure out what sets him off although Morris can be an instigator sometimes.

I wonder if the inner ear infection caused some damage to their brain? The social niceties of rathood?

 

[Moon]

Hmm... interesting thought. Looking at things sideways all the time might make them see body language differently... seeing normal body language as a threat??

 

[Dahlas]

I have to say I would have a major fit if that happened in my cage. I have never even seen a scuffle among my crew.
Wouldn't that be awfully extreme behavior for a cage mates whom have lived together for over 9 months to do that?
I would try the spay or else separate her from that group......not sure if that is considered right or wrong but I would feel awful to see her bullying and harassing the other rats.....
Hope little Jaffa heals quickly :hugs:

edit: Just wanted to point out....Both Jo and Shelia have WAY more experience in this then I do.....just stating how I would feel. :wink2:

 

[lilspaz68]

The hardware cloth is off and the rats prefer it I think

Just to show you how resilient our rats are...

Jaffa and Sweetie, her wounds have closed up nicely and are healing

front left is Jaffa, back right is Tepeu. :doh:

 

[Dahlas]

Wow that is amazing how fast they heal......Jaffa is a forgiving young lady. I am not sure I would sleep in the same hammock with Tepeu just yet.
They do all look so sweet together....