Now Molly has PT-- but Pred is helping

[Godmother]

Molly, who will be 32 months in two weeks, has always been healthy. I had foolishly started to hope that both she and Stella might make it to their third birthdays.

Molly has been keeping to herself the last week, but was otherwise OK-- until last night. I took everyone up a special treat -- little pieces of salmon skin-- and Molly just licked it. No grabbing, no running off with her prize the way she normally does. She was able to lick, but I noticed her walk into the dish of lab block mush. She wandered around the cage aimlessly.

This happened so fast! By the time I mixed up the Pred and abs, I noticed that her right paw was clubbed intermittently. I had to give the meds by syringe.

Tonight I will start her on Bromo as well, with a low dose to see how she tolerates it.

My only consolation is that she is not dehydrated. She must be able to eat enough lab block mush.

I have a bad feel about this. It's so fast.

 

[temblabamomo]

I am sorry. It really sucks how quickly PT can come on sometimes. Fingers crossed that the meds help. Sending kisses to your sweet girl.

 

[MiniFrog]

Oh no!! You are not having a good go at it are you? Sending good luck and thoughts your way!!

 

[Dahlas]

so sorry...hope she responds well to the meds

 

[Godmother]

She seems a little better -- less confused and with a stronger lick -- this evening. So I will add Bromo and cross my fingers like mad.

 

[MiniFrog]

that is good news! i too shall cross my fingers!!

 

[Godmother]

She was more alert and active this evening. She not only cares about grooming herself, but she could actually do it well. She still doesn't eat meds on her own, but she nibbled a bit of soft banana :joy:

And now a low dose of Bromo has been added to her meds.

 

[yoland]

Hi - So Sorry

I am having good luck with cabergoline her with our Sophie - she is almost 2 months since first PT signs and we almost lost her- but started the cab 5 weeks ago and she is doing well

her history is 8 mammary tumors an adrenal tumor and now PT she will be 3 in Jan ( about 4 months so she is similar age)

a company called Diamond back pharmacy in AZ is compounding for us- $35 for 50 days worth including shipping- now that we upped the dose that is about a month's worth
yes correct- we were buying from human pharmacy the first week at $35/pill which is a 6 day ( min) dose for rats.

we are using the daily dose and have upped it last week by 25% as all my research showed that is human protocol and very little to no side effects until dose way bigger than she is on.

I have the links and pdfs to most of the articles I have on it if you want to PM me I'll send the links I sent my vet

so don't give up! it took about 9 days to totally turn her around and she is no miracle spring chicken as she is older and had so many surgerys and had such a hard time getting over her surgery in Aug- * see my posts

but she is happy and well all things considered- we are tapering off the pred at the moment as she is having some "cushings like symptoms- slightly swollen head and body- big weight gain- hair didn't regrow everywhere they shaved her for her late July mammary tumors ( 4) surgery. ect * but she only has one adrenal gland thus I am wary of continuing the pred as she is doing well on the cabergoline.

she was on 1mg/lb pred BID for a month- now tapering at half that currently

of question to the group-

why is this drug not being used for mammary, PT and cardio disease in rats?
google "fadrozole and rats" and you will read some amazing articles-
I just have not had time to question why this isn't in use but will be starting our 2nd oldest on it asap as soon as I can figure out if the drug is actually available for purchase.

Anyone with a hip vet please ask what is up w/this-fadrozole
maybe it went the way of 3BPo and got caught in legal court issues- ??
wasn't going to make any money for the drug companies- ect
that I have an entire books worth and all of the published/ Dr Ko's research she cured rats of tumors period. but the fadrozle looks so much safer- no massive die off of cells that has made it not a working model in humans but worked great in rats- all the ugly aggressive tumors they gave the rats- melted away.

anyways hoping that any of our experiences and my research might help someone.
I have pdfs and links to back up what we are doing. Should you need it and will post if I find out more about the fadrozole chor...

on another not we are getting the chemical implant done in the morning on our sec oldest ( Bear)
as she has a mammary tumor that the herbal stuff has stopped working on- as in it's growing and she has had a mild URI since I adopted her in May? she is anywhere from 16-20 months old- no idea really they we guessing.
Bear

Sophie


Hoping that you can find a good remission and more loving time with Molly.
Best wishes
yoland

 

[lilspaz68]

Yoland please email all the information about the cabergoline., the company your vet gets it from etc? I would love to forward this to my own vet as he really wanted to try the cabergoline but couldn't find anywhere less than $300 for a month's supply!

[email protected]

Yay for Molly!!! Late onset PT is so sad, but I find it's not as progressive as PT under 2 years...they symptoms come and go, so I am very curious as to see how the bromo works on this type. Kisses to the sweet old girl!

 

[jorats]

I'd like all the info as well please! As well as the pharmacy, we've had such bad experience with bromo here, my vet doesn't want to use it ever again. But she knows Cabergoline is great stuff because of the testing done at U of Guelph.
Fadrozolerevents the development of both benign and malignant spontaneous mammary neoplasms in female Sprague-Dawleyrats. It also slows the spontaneous development of pituitary pars distalis adenomas in female rats, and reduces the incidence of spontaneous hepatocellular tumours in male and female rats.
http://www.biomedsearch.com/attachments ... 1-0076.pdf

Wow... Lilspaz, maybe you could ask Dr Munn about it?

 

[Godmother]

Very useful info, Yoland. I was wondering if that post should be used to start a separate thread.

With Molly, good news is that she was more focused and active this morning. The bad news is that she really resisted the meds. I hope that doesn't mean that Bromo disagrees with her GI system. But I am hopeful that there will be more improvement even if she is limited to Pred.

 

[lilspaz68]

I never had issues with the bromo, with tummy upset or anything like that. I did mix it in an oral solution and syringe med'd it to make sure they got it all and since its only once a day, I was forgiven quickly LOLOL

 

[Godmother]

Once a day sounds very tempting! I've been dividing the dose to minimize GI upset, but if that's not an issue it is much better not to have an extra med in the morning before work. Quite bad enough getting the Pred and Baytril down her.

 

[yoland]

off topic- well it looks like I could order it from China. I'll work out the dose and ask- but US/ Canada would have an easier time through customs. I 've ordered different meds ( nerve damage stuff for me)
from Holland and Italy before and sometimes it gets stuck in customs for a while....or gets a big tax bill attached....other times no problem same product.

First bite...

Dear Sir,

We are so glad to receive your e.mail. Thank you for your inquiry.

For the product Fadrozole, pls coud you tell us your quantity first and then we will quote you our best price.

Best regards,
Gloria(Sales Manager)
Union Pharma Co., LTD.
Address: 7F, Triumphal Constellation Buliding, No.6 Renhe Road, Yu Bei District, Chongqing,
Phone No.: +86-23-86875139
Fax No.: +86-23-86919584
E.mail: [email protected] [email protected]
www.union-pharma.com
==================================================================================================
my question-
Can vets order this. Fadrozole
USA

 

[yoland]

they sell 10mg and 50 mgs
but doesn't say if in powder/ pill or what form and how much that actually is.
one quote on another site was $380 but did not say exactly how much again
hmm not sending that much to asia.

my vet is looking into it and also looking at the actual research done recently to see if it's of any use.
Phase 2 clinical trials/women/breast cancer are completed in Japan on humans- no results posted yet.

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT0 ... ole&rank=1

 

[jorats]

Please do keep us updated on what your vet finds.

 

[yoland]

I'm on my way out for the day. But I highly suggest that one of you girls contacts Diamondback just to see
if they will ship to Canada.
the website catalog says the will FedEx to any address - nothing about ( in the US only)
"
Most packages are shipped via Priority Mail and can be delivered to any address 6 Days a week. Our Internet based shipping system allows us to track the locations of your prescription from the time it leaves us until the minute it reaches you. Expect delivery within 4 working days from the time you place your order. All major credit cards are accepted and our Toll-Free phone and fax lines are always open.

7901 East McDowell Road
Scottsdale, Arizona 85257
Telephone: 866 578-4420
Toll Free: 1-866-578-4420

Email: [email protected]"

http://www.diamondbackdrugs.com/wp-cont ... og2010.pdf

this might just be the godsend of getting the cabergoline affordably for the Canuck rats.
fingers crossed
yoland

** if you call the pharmasist will ask you what strength etc for the cabergoline
the cheaper qoute for me was not ordering the pills but getting them to compound
based on sophie's weight. I emailed back and forth with the pharmasist -
gave them her weight in kg , the dose recommend and what we wanted to give volume wise in ml
they worked out the concentration.
but to get the price for your rat it might be best to know how they did that, so you can specifically price your desired amount.

ie sophie was 432g at the time so 0.432kg
easist formula I use is x times y divided by z
(x)weight x (y)recommended dose/ (divided by) (z)concentration

weight x ( dose recommended, the starting dose is 0.2mg/kg SID {daily} = her daily dose
*some vets might want to go by the published paper - same equiv dose * 0.6mg/kg @ 72hrs)
So for Sophie

0.432 x 0.2 =0.0864mg daily we rounded down to 0.086mg SID
to figure out what concentration they should make , we wanted to give the least amount of medication
I picked easy one , 0.1ml of medication daily**
** I wouldn't go for any dose lower than 0.05ml -nor higher than 0.2ml

in order to make that happen they made her concentration 0.86mg/ml suspension
0.086mg ( dose) divided by (concentration) 0.86 mg/ml susp = 0.1ml dose

*one ( 1ml syringe equals 10 {0.1ml} doses) we ordered 5ml = 50 daily doses

math looks like this- ^ most of you will get similar size doses as avg rat is 400-520g (0.4-0.52kg)

sophie
0.432kg x 0.2mg/kg
divided by 0.86mg/ml
equals 0.1ml dose SID

basis math canceling out the extra kgs/mls
0.432kg x 0.2mg/kg
0.86mg/ml susp


step 1:

0.432[s:5n5o2uas]kg[/s:5n5o2uas] x 0.2mg
[s:5n5o2uas]kg[/s:5n5o2uas]


crossing out the kgs, you get 0.432 x 0.2mg


step 2
0.432 x 0.2mg
0.86mg/ml

cross out the mg

you get 0.432 x 0.2[s:5n5o2uas]mg[/s:5n5o2uas]
0.86[s:5n5o2uas]mg[/s:5n5o2uas]/ml



Step 3
0.432 x 0.2 , 0.0864 round down 0.086 ,
0.86 ml


0.086 equals 0.1ml dose SID
0.86ml



Most of you know this math, I did not remember fractions ( too many yrs ago LOL)
so I had to relearn it to really understand how to make and
feel confident knowing how I was compounding my meds here at home correctly
and to double checking what the vets were RXing was the correct dose for my girls ,
# that was a big one with the first few vets, they always were dosing way to low.

with practice I now feel so much better that I understand it.

Hopefully there are others out there like me , and this explaination is of help to them. and you are not all
rolling your eyes LOL the first easy formula always works , I always try and go w/ 0.1ml if possible
but if different weighing rats are on the same med.

I make the 0.1ml dose for one mid weight rat and go up or down to adjust for anyone else,
basing on x( weight) in the forumla ,

weight x rec dose
concentration made


this is not a bitter tasting medication- the cabergoline
my rats tend to do better w/meat flavor or coconut , but the catalog has dozens of flavors to choose from

praying that you guys can get this pharmacy to ship to Canada. Or that there is one just like it in Canada.
This med has helped my girl so much I am so so grateful. At the moment Sophie is
doing better each week. We are at 6 weeks- with one 20% increase around week 4 and a 1/2.

hugs and warm wishes. yoland