New here; a couple of questions

[Ratticus]

Hi everyone:

My name is Carol; just joined tonight. I have two female rats, Jackie and Squeaks. I think that my sweet Jackie, who is 26 months old, might have PT. I noticed a few weeks ago that she seemed to be slowing down. I've had her to the vet seven times since November, trying to figure out why she kept making strange gurgling noises in her sinus area. Her lungs have always been clear, but the noises sounded like congestion in the nose.

I've had her on various medications for months; sometimes doxycycline, sometimes that with bayril; another time the vet prescribed clavamox; she'd improved somewhat on six weeks of azithromycin, then the noises returned. Sometimes, she'd whine a bit now and then like a little dog; I'd hear soft popping sounds in her nose.

The vet said maybe allergies, maybe minor upper respiratory. He told me not to use prednisone - said it would suppress her immune system.

Then, just over a month ago I noticed that she started to not be able to jump up onto things as well; she'd stumble a little, then try again, as if her strength was lessening.

Two weeks ago, when she'd seemed a bit quiet and wanting to sleep more than usual, on Sunday, April 17, I woke up and saw that she was very lethargic and her balance was off on the right side, despite being on regular doxy.

Took her to the vet again; got her onto baytril with doxy again and started prednisone; also asked for Tamoxifen. She had a few 'better moments' over the first week, but this week she has really gone downhill; the slant to the right has worsened. She can still walk, but weak; her legs or arms aren't stiff, but she's very unsteady on her feet and often rolls over to the right.

She wants to move; her eyes are bright, but she's so limp and has lost most of her energy.

I currently have her on prednisone and Chloramphenicol twice a day. I don't know what else to do. Is there anything I can do to help her feel better? I am heartbroken. If she goes, her adopted sister, who is 20 months, will be alone. I've had many rats over the years; I was hoping this was just an ear infection, but after all these antibiotics, would she still be getting worse?

My husband thinks I should stop having rats for a number of years because this is so heartbreaking to me. On one hand, I feel I need a break, as almost 50 rats in 10 years has been SO hard; yet, I don't know what I'll do without any little cuddlers for a while.

If nothing else, thanks for listening, and any advice you can provide to us

 

[SQ]

How is her breathing?
is she well hydrated?
Does it seem like she has an inner ear infection (head tilt)?

 

[Ratticus]

Hi SweetPea:

Thanks for your reply. Her breathing is perfectly fine; she's never had any issues with her lungs. Sometimes, she makes gurgling noises that are always in the nasal area; I'll also hear some soft popping sounds there from time to time, but the noises are intermittent - otherwise, she makes no noise breathing. Her respiration is normal; her weight is good. Her eyes are clear and bright; occasionally, I'll wipe away some poryphrin from her right eye, and from her nose.

She's been on so many different antibiotics non-stop for the last number of months in an attempt to treat this as upper respiratory: baytril/doxy/amoxcillan, then doxy and azithromycin (the first six weeks of Zithromax did seem to help diminish a lot of the gurgling); she was pretty good until late February, when the gurgling type nose noises began more frequently again. I tried Zithro again, but it didn't do much, so kept up with twice a day doxy and more vet visits to try and figure out what was wrong. I kept telling the vet that there seems to be something in her nasal passages - any noise was always there. And she'd never make these noises at the vet, ever, not in seven vet visits over the last five months. He'd listen to her lungs, heart and tell me repeatedly that they sounded good, normal.

I asked him about nasal polyps; he said he can't see in a rat's nose; it's too tiny. He suggested allergies. We tried her on Benadryl, but it didn't do anything.

But about five weeks ago I noticed that she seemed to not be able to jump as well as she'd been; she could still do it, but would have to make a second attempt and sometimes she'd fall back, but get right up again. Then, three weeks ago I noticed that she wasn't climbing up into her plastic 'cuddle basket' in the cage, although she'd still climb up to the hammock.

Then around April 15 I noted that she seemed a tad quieter and wanted to sleep more; on April 17 I woke up and found her very lethargic, slightly tilted to the right, and not capable of climbing or jumping. She had taken a two foot fall from a desk she liked to jump up to, about five weeks ago, and landed on her back; I checked her over at the time and she seemed fine, continued as per usual.

I asked the vet if he could do an xray of her head to see if anything was going on in there; he said no, it would have to be an MRI which is very expensive...ruling that out, even though I've spent at least $1,000 in the last five months on vet visits, meds, trying to figure out what's wrong and treating this, treating for that, etc.

Now this happens. She was on Surolan ear drops for the past two weeks, and it did nothing, along with prednisone and doxy, and now prednisone, baytril, and chloramphenicol.

I am worried about PT because I've read that this kind of tumor sits right behind the eyes/sinuses in the rat's head, and because her noises were always nasal-oriented; and now with her balance gone where she flops over onto her right side, and her ability to walk has gone down to a slow, uneasy, wobbly crawl...I don't know what to think. I've considered a possible stroke. Her legs aren't stiff, but she's using her front legs to try and balance herself and therefore doesn't use them to eat, even though they move normally when she walks.

And, along with the prednisone, she also was started on TAmoxifen two weeks ago, in case it was PT. The tamoxifen shrunk a benign mammary tumor on her right side that was egg-sized, and is now down to large grape size; it is loose, moveable, and the vet says it's benign, and that Tamoxifen just cuts down estrogen and works on both types of tumors.

So, I don't understand why the pred and Tamoxifen haven't bought her more time, if this is PT.

I just called the vet today to ask for bromocriptine and dexamethesone; trying to get meds out of this vet isn't always easy; he said two weeks ago that he wasn't sure if bromocriptine was available in Canada.

I still don't know exactly what's wrong with my girl; her symptoms fit several conditions, but she isn't improving on the current antibiotics, pred, or Tamoxifen, and I don't know what to think at this time. Currently, I'm just trying to keep her comfortable; she willingly eats from a syringe, and will go to a low dish to eat - she is so frustrated to not be able to walk/move like she wants - I can see that her spirit wants to do what it used to be able to do, but her body isn't cooperating.

This is very heartbreaking for me; there's nothing worse than seeing your pets this ill and not being able to determine what's wrong, doing guesswork based on symptoms, and having vets just shrug because they don't know what to tell you.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[Ratticus]

Also, to answer your other question, yes, her head tilts somewhat to the right, like her body, but has become more so in the last week. She bruxes her teeth a fair amount and sometimes wants to chew on things.

I'm hoping that I can get dexamethesone and that it will improve her condition, whatever it is, for some time.

Much thanks.

 

[jorats]

Hi and welcome I'm sorry it under such unfortunate circumstances.
I'd give Bromo and dex a try, it can really help with PT. I don't think the tamoxifen would help as it's more a drug to fight against malignancies.
As for the mild nasal congestion, that can be a PT symptom. But it can be managed with a baytril maintenance dose given everyday.

 

[lilspaz68]

Hi Carol,

those nasal ratties are just dreadful to deal with, as you are so concerned it will end up in their lungs. I have a girl like that right now, and nothings really working so I am learning to just watch her body language and her bright eyes instead of listening to the horrible sounds from her nose.

As for the PT symptoms, she seems to have some but not all the classic symptoms. Is there any chance she is weaker on one side than the other indicating a stroke?

 

[Ratticus]

Hello:

Thanks so much for your various replies. I am still waiting for the vet clinic to call me back re: the dexamethesone and, hopefully, bromo (they tell me it's hard to get and expensive?). I don't care what it costs, if it'll help her.

She has weakness on the right side of the body; her left is stronger and seems to want to push her along, but she keeps losing her balance and rolling over to the right side. Sometimes, and it'll only last for a few seconds, she seems to spasm a little bit, as if her body tightens up into a curl where she'll tremble, then she'll relax again.

I am so upset seeing her like this; am just trying to keep her warm, loved, fed, cleaned and hoping for some kind of miracle at this point.

Do rats commonly live to beyond 30 months? I try so hard to do everything for them; healthy food, cage cleaned each day, only newspaper substrate, get whatever meds they need, daily outdoor play, etc. and yet it seems this 22 to 28 month range is 'average' for lifespan.

How I wish someone could breed ratties that lived a lot longer; it would be at least somewhat easier on the heart to not go through this kind of loss every two years or so.

Much thanks again.

 

[Ratticus]

Hi Lilspaz:

I can relate very well to what you're going through with your rattie; myco is such a frightening thing - it got to the point where any time a pet rat made any noise, I'd feel panic because I've seen too often what myco can do.

I hope, with yours, it's just some mild intermittent noise that is not directly related to any more serious underlying condition. But it does put you on guard and anxious, doesn't it? Sending many healing wishes your rattie's way. They steal our hearts, they are so beautiful.

 

[lilspaz68]

Hello:

Thanks so much for your various replies. I am still waiting for the vet clinic to call me back re: the dexamethesone and, hopefully, bromo (they tell me it's hard to get and expensive?). I don't care what it costs, if it'll help her.

She has weakness on the right side of the body; her left is stronger and seems to want to push her along, but she keeps losing her balance and rolling over to the right side. Sometimes, and it'll only last for a few seconds, she seems to spasm a little bit, as if her body tightens up into a curl where she'll tremble, then she'll relax again.

I am so upset seeing her like this; am just trying to keep her warm, loved, fed, cleaned and hoping for some kind of miracle at this point.

Do rats commonly live to beyond 30 months? I try so hard to do everything for them; healthy food, cage cleaned each day, only newspaper substrate, get whatever meds they need, daily outdoor play, etc. and yet it seems this 22 to 28 month range is 'average' for lifespan.

How I wish someone could breed ratties that lived a lot longer; it would be at least somewhat easier on the heart to not go through this kind of loss every two years or so.

Much thanks again.

I wonder if your little love is going through TIA? Transient Ischemic Attacks or mini-strokes? I had a wee one who went through that...started tipping, etc. Is she clumsy grasping on the bad side, does her mouth look a little relaxed on that side?

for me personally, I start with the dexamethasone to see if the rat responds to it and the PT symptoms diminish, then I start them on the bromocriptine. If you just get the tablets (2.5 mg) and not get the bromo compounded it will be a lot cheaper.

 

[jorats]

28 months is a good old age as well...our rats just don't seem to fair all that well, if it's not myco it's something entirely different.

As for my gang, I've been lucky to have a few live beyond 30 months, and having some reaching 40+ months but I really do feel that it's the luck of the draw.