Neuter question

[SQ]

Ralphie was neutered about two weeks ago and has developed two lumps which were enlarging so I left him in Linda's care so he could have a second follow up visit to the vet today ... brought the rest of the gang back to Halifax with me ... Lumps may be a reaction to the internal, dissoluble stitches.

Ralphie is my first boy (out of 5 boys) neutered by this vet, who has developed post surgical lumps, tho Jordan did develop a scrotal abscess.

Five out of five ratties neutered by another vet developed post surgical lumps which only increased in size as the ratties aged. These five boys were all done around the same general time period and I no longer get this vet to neuter my boys.

Question: What are your experiences with neuters? ... very expensive, exotic vet I called in Halifax uses glue instead of stitches ... considering having him do Burrell, etc. instead of the vet in Fredericton if glue works better than stitches. Money is a major consideration but the health of my boys is more important. Neutering as the boys are a bit too aggressive ...

What do you think?

 

[lilspaz68]

neuter abscesses can show up post-neuter quite a bit. I had 4 boys done at once and never used baytril with me (no idea if this made a difference) and 3 of them developed neuter abscesses (different places too) which I treated at home, with baytril/compresses then flushing.

My vet actually changed her sutures after hearing this, since rats are very prone to reacting to their internal sutures.

 

[Lise]

I had 2 boys neutered at the same time. One got an abscess, the other didn't. I had never had it done before so I actually didn't notice until the skin was necrotic (black) and the rat had to be put under again to remove that dead tissue. :?

Usually even if they glue the outside, there is a layer of subcutaneous sutures underneath, which is what the reaction is to. So the external glue doesn't make a huge difference.

 

[RatsForever]

I brought Ralphie to the vet this morning and his lumps are actually smaller but the vet did ask I keep checking to be certain they don't start growing again. She also mentioned, after some research, that neuter abscesses after surgery is not uncommon.

 

[jorats]

My Radar developed a very tiny lump after his neuter. I put him on Baytril for a week, it completely went away.

 

[SQ]

The lumps my boys had/have were not abscesses (unless that is what Ralphie has ... tho it shouldn't be as he has been on clavamox the entire time). Their lumps contained fatty tissue and never went away ... but increased in size as they aged.

Shelagh, what changes did your vet make?
Does the reaction to the internal stitches go away over time?
The first vet said that was what happened with the five boys but the lumps never went down ... Andy, Lyman, and Adam have since passed ... all were over 2 years and still had their lumps ... as do Monroe and Noah who over 2 years and with me in Halifax.


thanks

 

[jorats]

The lump on my Radar was not an abscess either. I think it's tissue or something?

 

[lilspaz68]

I wonder if the body reacted to the stitches like it would a foreign body and built a wall around it? I understand thats how it works with abscesses but has this ever happened where it was just tissue?

She changed her sutures to ones that had an antibacterial coating.

And if its a neuter abscess Clavamox might not be getting inside to clear out the "infection" since abscesses typically wall off from the healthy body.

If in doubt, let them sit in warm water in a sink a few times and see if the lump has changed at all.

 

[PiedPiper]

Hi everyone! Some of you may know that we are brand new to the rattie scene. My daughter just recently adopted a trio of beautiful, baby boys (eep! they are too cute . . . I'm a goner) and I'm still trying to get myself up to speed on health and general care, so I've been reading a lot of these old threads.

My question is . . . what are the indications for neutering? I have already advised EarlGrey that she should be squirreling away a few dollars every week for unexpected veterinary costs, but is this something that folks normally do with multiple male rats once they get to a certain age?

 

[SQ]

Sometimes boys start to get a bit aggressive with other rats due to hormones when they become teens. It is normal for boy ratties to wrestle, etc. but if they start to draw blood, someone needs to be neutered.

Some people choose to neuter for other reasons such as to reduce hormone levels so ratties do not have to deal with it or because they have females. I find that unneutered males do a lot more sent marking then neutered males.

 

[PiedPiper]

Sooo . . . if we don't mind being peed on . . . we should just wait and see? Right now, they're only about 10 or 12 weeks old.

If the wrestling starts to get out of hand, do they all get the knife or just the biggest bully?

Oh! One more question . . . when are they considered teens? In a few more weeks?

 

[jorats]

I'd have to say that most males will never need a neuter to curb aggression.

Recently, I've decided to neuter all my males in the one cage, just to see how well they would be.
I find the change unbelievable. But I still don't think I would recommend it unless you have a most excellent exotic vet.

 

[PiedPiper]

I'd have to say that most males will never need a neuter to curb aggression.

Jo . . . when you rat folk speak of aggression do you mean rat to human aggression or rat on rat?

Recently, I've decided to neuter all my males in the one cage, just to see how well they would be. I find the change unbelievable.

Really, hunh? They're much better pets?

But I still don't think I would recommend it unless you have a most excellent exotic vet.

Which I don't (I suppose I'd better start looking for one - any recommendations for a rat savvy vet in Vaughan?). I have to admit, the thought of anaesthetizing those tiny little bodies makes my blood run cold!

 

[jorats]

The aggression can be rat to human and/or rat to rat. Sometimes some rats are don't attack to the blood but will terrorize their cage mates which is also a good reason to neuter. Both victim and bully are not happy and a neuter with the bully is extremely beneficial.

They make better pets in that they are super happy boys. Males in a colony need to establish dominance or sometime try and gain dominance which can lead to an unhappy colony.
I should also mention, these observations are with a big colony. I'm now wondering if perhaps it's not the same with a group of three or four.
Also, having unaltered females in the same room as unaltered males can cause majour aggression issues. They are perpetually in hormonal upheaval because they smell those sweet girls. Which is one reason why I don't recommend having both sexes in the home unless one sex is altered. The main reason is to prevent unnecessary oopsies.

Being in Vaughan, are you close enough to Dr. Munn in TO? I hear most wonderful things about her. I'd say she's on par with my vet.

 

[Lise]

Apparently all of these complications are much less frequent with a vet that does an abdominal neuter. One of the reasons why abdominal instead of scrotal neuter is highly recommended.

There are no vets around me that are willing to do this so it just isn't an option for me.... but I believe it.

 

[PiedPiper]

Being in Vaughan, are you close enough to Dr. Munn in TO? I hear most wonderful things about her. I'd say she's on par with my vet.

I don't know? We're just north of Toronto. Where, in Toronto, does s/he practice?

 

[jorats]

Here's her address:

http://www.jorats.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=326

 

[PiedPiper]

Thanks, Jo. That's really not that close.

Anyone else know of a good, rat savvy vet north of the city (Toronto)? Anywhere in Vaughan, Thornhill, Richmond Hill, Markham . . . even Stoufville?

 

[Moon]

None in Markham.... I use Dr. Munn.

There is Dr. Luckwaldt at Amherst Vet Clinic in Scarborough. I've never gone there and I know it's hard to get HIM. but I have heard good things. Maybe someone can give their opinions?

Dr Luckwaldt
Amherst Veterinary Hospital
Avian, Exotic, and Small Animals
3206 Eglington Ave. East
Scarborough, ON
Phone: (416) 261-4007
(I don't know if all this info is still correct.. another phone number I found was (416)261-3322 )

 

[la_marée_haute]

Jo, did you say as SOON as someone draws blood a neuter is necessary? :? If you go to Goosemoose, you'll see that I was bitten in three places on my hand yesterday by Olivier after being mounted excessively. (He jumped on my hand a LOT this morning, too, while they were free ranging. Luckily I followed someone's advice, though, and squeaked/removed him everytime, so no blood today.)

I was wanting to just see how things went... but I dunno. 4 months IS apparently very young for this behaviour. And I know it's his hormones, as he's an absolute sweetheart otherwise. And right before the incident yesterday, actually, he was boggling on my lap.

I'm a bit worried about neutering (I'd definitely have to know that someone at my vet clinic has done it before, preferably my vet) with talk of the abcesses and all... Plus the price. Ouch. Lol. I can foresee it costing a lot, because hardly anyone has rats here as far as I know. Apart from feeder breeders and the odd 10 year-old boy, I'm assuming.

...However, if it's necessary, it's necessary. I don't want to get bitten again, and I don't want my boy to be taken over by his hormones. Albin's not too happy about it either!!

Any input would be great! I know I've been a tad vague (I'm about to go to bed), but as I said, my thread is at Goosemoose. Thanks.