need suggestions on how to proceed from here (intros)

[Petunia]

I got two new girls about a month ago, and have been doing intro's gradually: neutral territory first, then in the "residents" rat room, etc

It's gone very well with all of the girls except for one- Hope. She will be fine with the baby girls (who are about 4 mos old now) and then, suddenly, she will chase them and attack them.

I have suspected from the beginning that Hope is afraid of them- I can't really tell you why, but that's the sense I get. The two new girls are much more active and unpredictable then any of the others and I honestly think this scares, or at least disturbs, Hope


ok fast forward to last night- since all of the others get along so well, I put the baby girls and the two PEW girls in the same half of the DCN together, and left Hope and her sister Cookie in the other half.

NO problems at all! they are all very happy and sleeping together, etc.

But I am still having to drag the cage out of the rat room to take everyone out for play time and Hope is ok sometimes with the baby girls, and other times, she will chase after them relentlessly.

When this happens, Hope is puffed up huge, will sometimes sidle but usually just jumps on whichever girl she was chasing, if she can catch up to her (the babies are much faster)
One time both baby girls ran over and climbed up on my shoulders, and Hope was right there after them and when I tried to keep her from climbing up my arm, she put her teeth on me- didn't bite, but scared me because she did not want to back down.
I took the babies out of the room.

other times they will all be fine together, Hope will even groom them and they will groom her, back and forth, but suddenly Hope will get all riled up, even when the babies are NO WHERE near her, and she will track one or the other of them down and start attacking them without warning or provocation. it's really creepy- and makes me think that Hope has some sort of neuro issue, sometimes!

I don't know what it is that sets her off, but sometimes she just won't tolerate them being in the same space






Edited, it's def nothing to do with the cats, like I'd been thinking before

 

[jorats]

Have you tried putting them all in a scrubbed down cage to see how they would get along as a colony?
I noticed in some of my intros in the past, we couldn't get passed a certain behavior until they were finally living together.

 

[Petunia]

Have you tried putting them all in a scrubbed down cage to see how they would get along as a colony?
I noticed in some of my intros in the past, we couldn't get passed a certain behavior until they were finally living together.

I've been thinking about that, actually. Right now I've switched out the rats who are in with the babies, I put Cookie in there because she is a bit less tolerant than Evie and Paige, hoping that Cookie will figuratively only, "knock some sense" into the babies.

I think Hope wants/expects the babies to stop whatever they are doing and let her sniff them, flip them and otherwise dominate them, til she's sure they know who is boss, and these two baby girls are too stupid or stubborn to get it.

I keep hoping they'll learn good ratiquette from a gentler rat than Hope because poor Smidge's rump is really roughed up.
No bites that I can see, but lots of scratches.

My only concern with putting them in the cage is that I can't reach into it very easily due to bad shoulders

so I thought maybe trying them in a small box with a easily removable vented lid (a shelf from my fridge would work I think)

well for tonight the little ones will have to learn to do what Cookie and Evie expect from them. (Paige is in with Hope for now)
Cookie is probably the second in command, but only when Paige is not around.

Paige and Hope still have little tiffs from time to time over who is top Rat, but are pretty civil compared to what Hope does with the little ones!

thanks Jo

 

[jorats]

Sounds like you have some pretty good ideas. Most of the time, it's all about trying different things and sticking with what works for your gang. Keep us posted.

 

[Petunia]

:joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:

well you were right, Joanne!! I cleaned out the cage, put all new hammocks in there (actually OLD hammocks, the winter prints, that I've not been using as much lately) and rearranged everything so it looks totally different from the way I usually set things up-

I had all 6 girls out for play time, a LONG playtime, to tire them out as much as I could.

Hope and Brenna got into it several times, but I did see that Brenna kept going back to challenge Hope, so I'm thinking she can't be getting all that hurt, if she's not willing to back down.
I think Brenna will be able to hold her own in the cage.

Smidge is the only one I'm a bit concerned about, but she will look to the older girls for support and both Paige and Cookie are very fond of Smidge- and they will step in and protect her if Hope's being a bully.


So I let all 6 play for a long time, then I put the babies in a cat carrier so I could finish cleaning out the cage- while the older four continued to play and nap in the rat room.

once the cage was done and decorated, I left it in the kitchen and put a fan on in the kitchen to cool things off. It's not really hot in here but I notice they all are a lot more mellow the cooler they are.

all six girls went into the cage, had some oatmeal and puffed wheat to chow down on- they all checked out the new digs, Brenna and Hope got into it briefly a few times, but silently, no squeaking from either one. Smidge stayed off by herself or stayed alongside Cookie, Evie or Paige and Hope hasn't bothered with her (yet)

it's looking really good!

I am pretty sure Hope will have some sort of altercation with Smidge at some point tonight, and I'll be up all night watching them (I sleep odd hours, from like 6 am to 1 pm ish)

only thing I'm not sure about is what to do if it gets really ugly with Smidge and Hope (or any of them, but I'd be very surprised if there was a problem with any one else, they've been very civil for a long time now)

I'll be sure to let you know!

thanks so much for all your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and those videos, that made a big difference, too!!

 

[jorats]

Yay! I'm glad you got them all in. Hope might very well pin and flip the younguns but that's ok. If Hope had any idea of lunging and right out attacking, it would have happened almost instantly. Everything else is pretty much a lesson to be learned.

 

[Petunia]

Yay! I'm glad you got them all in. Hope might very well pin and flip the younguns but that's ok. If Hope had any idea of lunging and right out attacking, it would have happened almost instantly. Everything else is pretty much a lesson to be learned.

yup that's just what happened, I would not have even known about it If I didn't have the cage right beside me while I was sewing.

I looked over and saw Hope on top of Smidge in a hammock. Smigde never made a sound! Hope was pinning her and holding her and kind of looking in her eyes, as if to say, pay attention! you will lie here til I am done! and then she groomed her for a long time, and if Smidge protested, she'd go back to pinning and the hard stare-
and on it went.
At one point Smidge wriggled out from under Hope and Hope grabbed her and flipped her again, and held her til she stopped struggling.

after that, all was well- they all went in search of something to eat and there was a shuffling around of who was sleeping with whom, but for the most part it was a pretty uneventful evening.

:joy:

 

[mamarat]

Sounds great, glad the girls are all together.

 

[jorats]

I really think Hope is just being a good rat with strong maternal instincts. I'm so glad its all working out.