need advice : meds : respiratory issue

[ChrisK]

My Lollipop has had the sniffles for some time now. First we put her on baytril, but after two weeks, there was no noticable difference. In fact, she was getting worse. Then we gave her amoxicillin with doxy. There was some improvement -- no more hiccups -- but it seemed to stop there. She went back onto baytril for a week while waiting for the next drug to arrive from the pharmacy.

Now she's been getting doxy twice a day, (and Theophylline once a day, when I can get her to take it all). With this latest med, doxy, she started getting full doses this past Thursday. So it's now been 4 days that she's had full doses of doxy, and no improvement. Have I waited long enough to call the vet and try switching to something else again? If so, what else should we ask for at this point? If not, how long should I wait? I've read that doxy should do the trick in a number of places, but Lollipop doesn't always respond to the typical scenarios.

This is quite frustrating. Her symptoms are that I can hear a whistly sound when she's breathing, almost all the time. She otherwise seems fine. (except that she also has a single scab on her side, not sure what from, and probably not related..)

 

[victoria]

Have you tried Doxy and Batryl twice a day? She will likely need more than 2 weeks of meds to fully recover.

 

[Godmother]

Some rats need Doxy & Baytril together. If that doesn't help you might want to ask for Azithromycin or Chlorpalm. Good luck!

 

[SQ]

When antibiotics are helping, they usually need to stay on them for at least 6 weeks.
Baytril and doxy are given twice a day.
Baytril and clavamox, and baytril and azithriomycin ae two other combos that sometimes work.
All of these meds are given twice a day.

 

[jorats]

I've noticed that infections have been more persistent and harder to treat. I would try the Baytril and Zithro combo.
But a couple of people have found a Baytril and Amoxi to be a great combo as well, something else you could try.
In some of my rats, it would take a month before I saw improvements. You have to give the meds a chance because there simply really isn't that many meds out there that will treat URIs.

 

[ChrisK]

Maybe then I haven't given any of the first drugs we tried long enough. I was thinking I'd see improvement in a few days, certainly within a week. But if that's not the case, maybe the other drugs would have worked if we kept her on them.

So right now, she's getting doxy, not combined with another antibiotic. And she's had it for four days, today is day 5. I'm really lost as to if I should ask the vet for a combo of doxy and something else.. (probably not baytril because she continued getting worse when she was on it a few weeks ago) Maybe she just needs to stay on the doxy for 3 or 4 more weeks and see. Waiting is not my forte... :roll:

This is really scary to me, as I've read about how these things can escalate quickly and become fatal. I was hoping to nip this one in the bud, before it gets real bad. (Plus I've got to be out of town for four days end of November, and have to leave her with my husband's daughter, whom I hope will be able to get her to take all her meds daily. It can be a challenge.)

 

[jorats]

I'm going to say this but not very many will agree with me: doxy sucks. I hate it. It never worked for any of our rats here. All it ever did was give a boost to another med and stopped after 2 weeks.
Ask for Zithromax asap.

 

Toby had been fighting with resp issues for over a year ..he started with Baytril twice a day for a month, then he was on Doxy/Baytril for 6 months + then it stopped working ..so then we put him on Clenbuterol (A horse decongestent) for 30 days and Zithro once a day for just 10 days! ..he was then off meds for almost 4 months ..then I started intro's which stressed him out ..and he started showing symptoms again ..so he just finished his 10 days of zithro and now has 20 days of the clenbuterol left.

I was using shredded paper for the 4 months he was on no meds ..because he did best with that ..but I think it started to irritate him ..so now i have fleece again.

What kind of bedding are you using?

Toby never did well with carefresh,boxo,aspen,fresh & comfy, and now shredded paper ..ANY bit of dust irritates him.

I also bought a humidfyer at the same time he went on the zithro and clenbuterol for the first time ..and it has helped alot ..I have it running 24/7 + I have a hepa air purifyer running too.

 

[ChrisK]

so then we put him on Clenbuterol (A horse decongestent) for 30 days and Zithro once a day for just 10 days! ..he was then off meds for almost 4 months

Wow! Those are some pretty impressive results!

What kind of bedding are you using?

I also bought a humidfyer at the same time he went on the zithro and clenbuterol for the first time ..and it has helped alot ..I have it running 24/7 + I have a hepa air purifyer running too.

I'm using all fleece bedding. I clean their cage daily and give all fresh fleece bedding several times a week. I've been running a humidifier a few hours each night since this started -- only when we're home and in the room with them.

 

Could you leave your humidfyer on at all times?

Is it a cool mist One?

 

[Godmother]

How interesting the way antibiotics work (or not) with rats in different areas. I have had great luck with Doxy/Baytril. That is what saved Sawyer last month when he was completely lethargic and breathing very noisily. It makes me think that different strains of bugs are in different parts of the country.

 

[ChrisK]

Could you leave your humidfyer on at all times?

Is it a cool mist One?

Yes, it's a cool mist humidifier. It's kinda old, but does the trick. I don't trust it enough to leave it on when I'm not home. Could look into an air purifier or a different humidifier though.

 

[ChrisK]

I've noticed that infections have been more persistent and harder to treat. I would try the Baytril and Zithro combo.
But a couple of people have found a Baytril and Amoxi to be a great combo as well, something else you could try.
In some of my rats, it would take a month before I saw improvements. You have to give the meds a chance because there simply really isn't that many meds out there that will treat URIs.

Two questions about this: when we're talking about combos, like Baytril and Zithro for instance, does the vet combine them both so that I give one dose twice daily or would I get two separate bottles and have to give two doses, one for each drug, twice daily?

Is it correct to say that the combination may work even if the drugs separately did not? That is, we had no luck with Baytril, but when baytril is mixed with zithro, it might give us results?

 

[jorats]

You would give your meds separately and ideally with a 30 minute wait in between.
Even though on it's own it didn't work, in a combo it might be just enough to treat it.

 

You would give your meds separately and ideally with a 30 minute wait in between.

You wait 30 mins???
I did not know this :wallbang:


You would have two different bottles.
Med's work WAY better when given in a combo, one might not work alone, but works better together!

 

[jorats]

Ideally but not very many do the wait.

 

Before work I can't, unless I am going to get up 530 :giggle:
In the evenings I can tho ..

 

[ChrisK]

So after trying three different types of antibiotics, etc., things just seemed to be the same or worse. Still no major symptoms, just the whistle sound when breathing. And now both my ratties are showing the same symptoms.

I decided to go to the exotics specialist I know in town. He's the same guy who gave my girls their implants. After chewing me out for going to the other vet for this issue and then coming to him with a long history :thud: he gave them a very thorough exam, and gave me lots of information.

What he said surprised me, as all the research I've done on this stuff has not turned up even a hint of what he said. He took a slide of excretion from her nose and analyzed it, and found no bacteria. Then after checking her lungs and heart, and finding everything clear, he listened to her breathing carefully. He said the wheezing sound is only when she's breathing IN, and not when breathing out. All this indicated to him that what she needs is NOT an antibiotic. But that the issue is probably environmental... the same kind of stuffy nose stuff we tend to get indoors in winter due to dry air..

The treatment is to use an anti-inflamatory for the next 4-5 days and see if we get results. If so, then we'll go from there to either lessen the dose, or administer it several days on, several days off, etc.

So today is only the second day. I'm hoping he's right! *fingers crossed*

If that doesn't work, we'll be going back.

Frankly, this is very unconventional, and I don't know yet how it will turn out. I am nervous about not giving them antibiotics, but since none of them were helping anyway, a week or so without them is probably okay while we try this approach.

I thought it worthwhile posting this, as I've not seen any such direction or treatment mentioned elsewhere yet, so probably good to let it be known, and also hear your thoughts on it.

 

[Chevalrose]

I think it's totally possible. When we hear wheezing at all it's normal to jump to the URI conclusion because they're so common and usually time-sensitive. I've noticed in my rats that around this time of year, and in the spring, they all get a little wheezy. Unless they're showing any other signs of a URI, I usually just give it time, and it usually goes away.

Your vet seems like he's detailed which is good, sounds trustworthy.