My sister's rat... Help me save her. - Update: RIP Minnie

The Rat Shack Forum

Help Support The Rat Shack Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Blizzisme

Active Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
28
Location
Montreal
My sister's rat got sick last week. She wasn't eating, had no energy, and her fur was a bit patchy and ungroomed. I looked and it looked to me like there was something wrong with her teeth. She went to the vet (Hopital Vétérinaire pour Oiseaux et Animaux Exotiques on Sherbrook in Montreal) and they told her that her teeth are fine, but she has a respiratory infection. They put her on Baytril(.1cc) and Doxy(.2cc).

A week later and I finally have news(from my father, no my sister!!! grrr!). Her rat is not doing well... She has stopped eating and drinking on her own and he has been feeding her and getting water into her with a syringe. I checked how much and he hasn't been giving her enough water. The other rats(2 younger) apparently attacked her and were biting her ears and cheeks, as evidenced by scabbed over scratches. They might have been self-inflicted, I don't know. I went over there and this is what I found:

She hasn't been grooming herself, and she is separated from the other rats.
She had caked porphyrin in the fur around her eyes.
Her back legs are pointed forwards(straight from the hips), not bent like normal. They tend to go to a crossed position, and she does not move them on her own.
I tried to find some nutri-cal but couldn't find anyone selling nearby, so I picked up some Excel kitten vitamin paste.
I got some water into her(3ml and then another 3ml 20-30 minutes later) and I mixed 40% Liberty Creme Fraiche(like sour creme, but 40% fat) in a 4:1 ratio with the vitamins and got that mix into her as well.
After 2 batches of that, She made a couple of efforts to groom herself but gave up. She was also moving her head around a bit.
I gave her a bath and during the bath and the blow drying she moved her hind legs on her own and I thought she would actually stand up, so I know her hind legs are still functional. Afterwards she went back to keeping them stiff, pointed forwards, and crossed.
She has lost a lot of weight, and there were no visible or tactile lumps, no lesions, no pain spots(or at least none she reacted to).
I checked her teeth and the top teeth are not bruxed evenly(the right tooth is bruxed at an angle with the point at the outside). The bottom teeth I wasn't able to determine as she wouldn't let me open her mouth enough.

Besides possible dehydration, malnutrition, and possible a malocclusion or other dental problem... What else could it be and what else should I be doing? We are going to find another vet to take her to and try and take her there tomorrow, but other than that? Or anything I should make a note to talk to the vet about?


P.S. Yes, I know doxy and dairy are contra-indicated. I went and tracked it down, and it is just a reduction in efficiency if you take the doxy at the same time as the dairy. I made sure they would not be giving them the dairy mix or the probiotics that I picked up at the same time as the doxy.
 
It sounds like there may be something more than pneumonia wrong with her. You should book a recheck at the vet, there may be more they can do to help. Can you take a video of her for us to see? Do you know which vet she saw at the clinic?

Montreal Critters sells Ferret Vite and Nutri Cal and you can pick it up from their warehouse in east Montreal (Papineau and Notre Dame) but I suggest you try baby food or baby cereal instead.

Please tell your sister to put her back with her friends. If she has an infection, they are already exposed. Separating her will only stress and depress her.

Edit: I just re-read your post. What do the scabs look like? Where are they? It's unusual for rats to beat up a sick rat like that, it may be she has parasites.
 
victoria said:
It sounds like there may be something more than pneumonia wrong with her. You should book a recheck at the vet, there may be more they can do to help.I am going to get her rechecked, but not at that vet... I've taken my girls there and gotten some vague answers and stuff, but I research enough and do most of the stuff myself, so I never really thought about it. Whoever they saw mentioned feeding baby food and feeding with a syringe, but didn't/couldn't tell them about the rats hydration requirements or anything and sort of left them on their own. Can you take a video of her for us to see?Not right now. I left her there for the night and will be taking care of her again tomorrow morning(my father is bringing her to my workplace so I can get her to a vet). Do you know which vet she saw at the clinic? Not sure, unfortunately.

Montreal Critters sells Ferret Vite and Nutri Cal and you can pick it up from their warehouse in east Montreal (Papineau and Notre Dame)I am in Pointe-Claire so that is a bit of a haul for me, but I will try to get there. I consulted with a breeder I know who confirmed that the Excel would be good enough until we can get something better. I actually have an order in with bio-serv for AIN-93 and AIN-73a vitamin and mineral mixes, but with the whole hurricane thing it has been slightly delayed but I suggest you try baby food or baby cereal instead.I actually switched them away from apple-sauce and baby food to the mix I would use. It is very calorically dense and energy rich. The creme fraiche is also pro-biotic which will help if the antibiotics have been damaging the gut flora, and it is really easy to pass through the syringe. If there is a reason to switch back I would definitely do so, however.

Please tell your sister to put her back with her friends. If she has an infection, they are already exposed.They didn't separate her to prevent contagion, they separated her because she was being injured. The 2 younger rats she has are very... rambunctious... and have bullied her in the past, though they have never caused damage before Separating her will only stress and depress her.She is being handled and played with at regular intervals(roughly every 30-40 minutes). I also advised that they try re-introducting just 1 of the other 2 rats and supervising closely to see if she will get groomed. They need to be closely supervised, though.

See my answers in-line, in red.
 
I was just editing my post when you posted.

The way you're describing the way she's standing, she sounds like she has a pituitary tumour. She needs to see a knowledgeable vet to be diagnosed and treated, if you don't like the clinic in NDG there are a few other good exotic clinics in town:

Lachine Veterinary Clinic
CHUV (the faculty of vet medicine in St. Hyacinthe)
Animo Vet in St. Hubert (Dr. Brieger)
Centre Veterinaire Laval

With the exception of Dr. Brieger, I can't recommend the other clinics first hand. I've been to a lot of vets in several cities, Dr. Brieger and Dr. Sophie Hebert-Saultnier (at the clinic in NDG) are both excellent and would be my first choices. I know another forum member was able to get Bromocriptine for her rat with a pituitary tumour at the NDG clinic and I am have a rat on it right now that was seen by Dr. Brieger but I don't know that the other clinics are familiar with it. If it is a PT, Bromocriptine or Cabergoline are the only treatments that may help her improve, otherwise steroids can be used to relieve the symptoms for some time.
 
Blizzisme said:
I am going to get her rechecked, but not at that vet... I've taken my girls there and gotten some vague answers and stuff

I'm surprised... which vet did you see? If you didn't see Dr Beaulieu, I would ask for an appointment with her. She is my vet and believe me, I am a regular at the clinic and she is amazing. She and Dr Hébert-Saulnier did miracles for my Tanner these past few months.

And I agree with Victoria... if the abs don't help it might be a pituitary tumor :sad3:. I was able to convince Dr Beaulieu to give the Bromocriptine a try for my Cabotine, and it did give her 2 more happy months. But I sure hope your sister's girly will end up getting better with a new abs combo...

Sending healing vibes her way. :hugs:
 
bromocriptine - cheaper, has side effects which some can not tolerate so people start them with a small dose (on a full stomach) and gradually increase the dose.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=28917&p=401170&hilit=bromocriptine#p401170

If it is a respir infection, there are other combos you can try such as zithro + baytril.
Heart problems may also cause respir symptoms.
Soy infant formula, thickened with baby cereal, is a good supliment for rats and can be syringe fed.

Hope you are able to take her to see a good rat vet asap.
 
I have an 11:10 appointment at Centre Veterinaire Laval (mentioned above).

I was asking about the bromo/caber because someone mentioned the possibility of a pituitary tumor. I know that caber is longer lasting so doesn't need to be administered as often. But apart from that I don't know much about them...

If it is a PT, the drugs will help in the short term to alleviate symptoms... Long term it can be put into partial or full remission or even eliminated through diet... But I want to make sure that in the event of more than one drug option that I am not giving the one that will cause the most trouble.
 
Cabergoline is better for less side effects but it's much more expensive.
If the vet won't give either bromo or cabergoline, because many vets are not current with rat meds, at least try to get prednisone.
 
Short answer: Vet convinced them to put her down to end her suffering. (Was my dad and sister, it is my sister's rat).

I wrote out a long answer multiple times, but it kept coming out as more of a rant than anything else... I truly believe I could have saved her. They decided not to prolong her suffering at the advice of the vet, even though I told them I thought I could save her... I understand their decision, but it still makes me angry.

I am very happy she isn't suffering(it was heartbreaking to see her).
I am upset that they let her degenerate to that point, and I am upset that they wouldn't let me try and save her... I think she had more time in her as a happy healthy ratty.

I am trying not to react too much since I am at work, but I didn't realise how attached I was to her, even as infrequently as I saw her...
 
Ah damn...sorry for the language but damnit all.

I feel for you, and you did everything you possibly could, but I guess at the end of the day you couldn't make the last call. I'm so sorry for your loss, thank you for trying, everyone here applauds you for that. :hugs:
 
Blizzisme said:
Short answer: Vet convinced them to put her down to end her suffering. (Was my dad and sister, it is my sister's rat).

I wrote out a long answer multiple times, but it kept coming out as more of a rant than anything else... I truly believe I could have saved her. They decided not to prolong her suffering at the advice of the vet, even though I told them I thought I could save her... I understand their decision, but it still makes me angry.

I am very happy she isn't suffering(it was heartbreaking to see her).
I am upset that they let her degenerate to that point, and I am upset that they wouldn't let me try and save her... I think she had more time in her as a happy healthy ratty.

I am trying not to react too much since I am at work, but I didn't realise how attached I was to her, even as infrequently as I saw her...

Did you see Dr Hébert? It sounds like her...
 
Blizzisme said:
Short answer: Vet convinced them to put her down to end her suffering. (Was my dad and sister, it is my sister's rat).

I wrote out a long answer multiple times, but it kept coming out as more of a rant than anything else... I truly believe I could have saved her. They decided not to prolong her suffering at the advice of the vet, even though I told them I thought I could save her... I understand their decision, but it still makes me angry.

I am very happy she isn't suffering(it was heartbreaking to see her).
I am upset that they let her degenerate to that point, and I am upset that they wouldn't let me try and save her... I think she had more time in her as a happy healthy ratty.

I am trying not to react too much since I am at work, but I didn't realise how attached I was to her, even as infrequently as I saw her...

I'm so sorry. I agree that your family should have given you a chance. :tearful:
 

Latest posts

Back
Top