My boys are not getting along so well anymore!

[kbg]

My son and I have had two beautiful boys for about a year and a half now, who are brothers. They live in a huge rabbit cage, 4'long, 2'wide, and 2.5'high. They were always close, but sometimes would have a spat. In the last few months though, the fights have increased, one of my boys, Twitch, being the obvious aggressor. I have seen a number of small wounds on my other boy, Spot's, feet and tail. Now, they have stopped sleeping together most of the time (although sometimes they still do), Spot, choosing to sleep up high in his hammock to keep away from Twitch. Twitch now hoards all the food into his own nest so that Spot cannot get any, and I have to feed Spot in his hammock to ensure he gets fed. My vet (who is great with rats), wondered if there may be a health issue with Spot, and that Twitch is aggressive with him and isolating him due to a natural instinct, but my gut tells me it's testosterone and not illness. Spot appears to be perfectly healthy other than his fear of his brother. I am now planning to have them both neutered soon, but just wanted to see what you all think about this. Do you think neutering them will possibly solve this problem? They are both the sweetest boys, and I would hate to have to separate them. I'm scared to put them through the risks of surgery though if it will not solve this problem. Any sharing of experience about this would be ever so appreciated! Thanks! (o:

 

[RatPack]

I agree with you that it is probably hormones and having them neutered should help

 

[dspch911]

Yikes, that's kind of old for hormones to kick in. Neuters do wonders, but I would be concerned about surgery at that age. Some people think the anesthesia can bring on PT, I do believe that happened to my Kona. Perhaps your Twitch has something going on. I recently had two very sick boys, that did pass away, and their brother never left their side. Hope you can figure this out, you may just want to try neutering the one aggressive boy.

 

[kbg]

I thought of only doing the one, but then I read another post where someone did that, and then when she reintroduced, the un-neutered male became aggressive with the newly neutered one. I am worried that might happen. I thought maybe if they both had no more hormones to deal with, there would less likely an issue like that.

 

[dspch911]

That happened to me, but my boys were young. Wally doesn't really like anyone.

 

[SQ]

Useful info re surgery http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7691

and if you find your vet is not as experienced as you would like,
this exotic vet has low fees and is highly recommended by some members of this forum
http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10160

 

[kbg]

Thanks SQ, I will pass this info along. My vet is awesome, and is willing to learn more if she is given valid info, so I think that is a good thing. She has already used my "Rat Health Care" book for my babies care of respiratory infection, and everything she did was exactly how the book says it should be done by a good vet. I am very pleased. i will make sure to research well before surgery, and I will make sure we are on the same page before any procedure is done, I promise! (o:

 

[jorats]

18 months old is kind of old for this behaviour change due to hormones. Are you seeing scabs on the boys? I would first do a mite treatment. It's harmless and helpful. Mites can make rats grumpy for sure.
If one of my 18 months old would have a sudden behaviour change, I would be looking for signs of pituitary tumour. Look other changes like sluggish, slight head tilt, loss of back end mobility, unable to grasp food. Those would indicate a neurological issue.

 

[kbg]

They may not be quite 1.5 years, but close. I can't remember the exact month we got them. Not long after, I was dealing with a very sick puppy for a while, and that time is all jumbled in my head! The behaviour started a few months ago, and has escalated. They still sleep together at night, and run around during out time with no issues, but Spot is definitely VERY intimidated whenever Twitch is around him in their cage, and he sleeps away from him in the day. He has had quite a few minor wounds, including the end of his tail being bitten almost off. It seems like Twitch is fine most times, but then suddenly turns on Spot unexpectedly, so Spot is always on edge wondering when the next strike will come. I thought of separating them, but I hate for them to be alone, and to have to try to reintroduce them later. I have not noticed any strange behaviour other than what I have mentioned, especially that may seem neurological in nature. Also, no signs of any itchiness or scabs at all, so I am assuming it is not mites. Their fur and skin seems very nice and healthy. I am going to bring them in for a check up with my vet before planning a neuter, just to be sure though. She seemed to think it may be health related too. I will make sure to follow all possibilities before putting them through surgery. Are the risks that much greater when they are older? I would be devastated if one of both of them died in surgery! Now I'm scared of making the wrong decision!

 

[jorats]

If the behaviour started closer to 12 months, then it's definitely hormones. Also, the way you explain it now, I'd say a neuter for Twitch would be beneficial. It's also important to have a vet that is comfortable with doing neuters on rats. Neuters are quite safe with minimal risk but that risk is greater if the vet is not experienced with rats.

 

[SQ]

Surgery always has risks but the risk is very low if your rat is healthy and your vet knows how to do surgery on rats.
All my rats are neutered and spayed.

However, surgery with small animals like rats is very different then surgery on cats and dogs.
If the vet uses injectable anesthetic, then the rat is likely to die .... thus the previously mentioned link regarding things to discuss

 

[kbg]

Thanks SQ. I will consider all of this, and not do surgery unless I feel confident it will be done right. (o:

 

[kbg]

Thanks Jorats. I will be speaking with my vet soon to see if I feel confident she can do it well, and I will consider getting him neutered. Really, the more I watch them, the more I see it is food related. I was away for a month this summer, and had a family stay at my house to watch my pets, and they did not have time for playing with the rats. I think they also may have not fed them as much, which may be when Twitches hoarding behaviour started. When I think back, a lot of this started around then. Do you think it could be that, and is there a better solution to fix it if this is so? Or is neutering still the best solution now that the behaviour is ingrained? Also, if this is the case, won't withholding some food from Twitch to help him lose weight possibly cause more issues?

 

[jorats]

I doubt the less food would do it. In fact, less food is actually healthier unless they were being starved and abused, that could be a reason for the change in behaviour. I know of a couple of cases where people were able to do trust training with the rat to change the behaviour which will take a lot of work. joinrats.com has awesome tips on how to do that.