Joy aka Joyful ... her poor tail

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SQ

Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
17,207
Location
central New Brunswick Canada
Joy will be 3 by August, has arthritis, we are trying to manage her pain, and she is showing some signs of pt.
Joy has been having respir issues for a couple of weeks so I have had her on lasix and tried diff combos of antibiotics. On Wed it was discovered that Joy has a very huge heart so she was started on heart meds to see if they would help. Thursday when I went to give her meds I found that Joy was limp and floppy like a rag doll and her breathing wasn't good. I forced the meds into her over about an hour (no vet available to pts) and gave her sub-Q fluids although she didn't seem dehydrated. After about 2 hours she perked up a bit. She yawned several times yesterday evening (lack of O2?).
I am thinking stroke?
Joy seems to have recovered this morning. We have a vet visit with a different vet in about an hour as my vet is completely booked.
I don't know what to do ... and its the weekend - no vets for 2 days. I had about 2 hours sleep last night (after several days of almost no sleep ... bad week for dying ratties) so I'm not thinking very clearly.
Any ideas?
 
Poor girl, it's always such a hard decision and I understand about those 2 day weekends with no vet. Maybe she was having a bad day? :hugs: When they reach that age things can go wrong really fast.
 
Thanks mamarat.
We are back from the vet.
Turns out that what I thought was conjestion is actually pain :sad3:
The noises started about 4 days after I switched her from medicam to pred + codene as wanted to try pred for possible pt.
I thought she was doing ok on the pain meds .... I was wrong :emb: and she has been suffering :cry4:
I want to switch back to the medicam but the vet wants me to give the meds a few more days to work.
Since starting the heart meds Joy is looking much better (decrease in porpherine and no longer puffy).
Today her tail is in muscle spasms .... due to difficulty getting meds into her, Joy didn't get any codene yesterday. Codene dose has been increased.

We have a apt for Tuesday. Hopefully Joy will be feeling ok by then or I guess that may be it.
 
Sending healing vibes to your sweetie. You always try the best for your ratties. What do you mean the tail in muscle spasms? I've never heard of that before, just curious.
 
I am so glad that your found out what the other problem was. It is so difficult when they have multiple health problems. For anything to do with joint pain or dental pain (where inflammation is a major factor) I think that an anti-inflammatory is usually way better than an opiate. I hope that you don't have to wait too long to switch back to metacam. At her age the risk would be small compared to the gain.

Pats and kisses to Joy for me.
 
Sweet Joy... hopefully she'll find some comfort. But don't be too hard on yourself SQ, rats adapt and are able to block pain.
Sending you and Joy well wishes.
 
Godmother said:
For anything to do with joint pain or dental pain (where inflammation is a major factor) I think that an anti-inflammatory is usually way better than an opiate. I hope that you don't have to wait too long to switch back to metacam. At her age the risk would be small compared to the gain.

Pats and kisses to Joy for me.

I'm confused .... the choices are to stay on pred + codene for a few more days (higher doeses of both) as the vets have suggested.
or get her off the pred as soon as possible and get her back on a high does of metacam.

Does anyone know the max dose for codene? (That is the way it is spelled on my perscription bottle)
My book says 10 mg/Ib once a day ..... wondering if it is metabolised faster and thus if the dose could be given every 12 hours.
It seems that is the case for metacam.

She is on the max ... codene was given at 8 am but Joy is in pain ... whining, grunting, etc.
 
If it were me, I'd get her right back on the Metacam because of her pain being from joint inflammation.

My personal experience with pain meds (inflammation after a root canal) is that 292s (codeine + aspirin) did nothing whereas Motrin/Advil/ibuprofen took the pain away no problem.
 
Ah. Does she need the preds? You could try a childrens medicine. I'm not sure what yoyu get there... we use Calpol but you probably don't get such a thing. It works for ours.
 
We switched from metacam to pred + codene as she seemed to be showing some signs of pt (yes, she is also on an antibiotic).
Ypu can't just stop taking pred. It has to be gradually decreased over time.
A rat can not be on both pred and metacam (or any other NSAIDs).
 
Oh I know they can't have both and that you must wean them off I just meant would giving her childrens medicine be a good idea as it's pain relief without using metacam? Obviously if she has PT, she needs the relief from the steroid.
 
I increased her codene and pred on Friday and Joy has been doing a bit better.
Both vets have told me not to reduce pred and switch to metacam.
Not so sure she has pt ... what looked like a symptom seems to be behaviour related to her dislike of meds and also trying to have bowel movements.
Had a vet apt on Tuesday but the vet did not want to put Joy to sleep because of the improvement.
She isn't doing so good today ...

Big concern is Joy's tail. This also happened to Joey's (rip) tail.
Vet isn't sure what is causing it unless it is a loss of circulation.
Joy is on clavamox so if it is an infection that should be helping.

The skin on about 1/3 of her tail is no longer attached to the bone. The vet says the end of her tail wouldn't have feeling but that it would hurt where the healthy and damaged parts of her tail meet. I was told she is not a candidate for surgery given her chf.
The flesh is shrinking at the end of her tail, turning into a thin thread that is breaking off.


Any ideas etc appreciated.

Here are some pictures:

May09JoyandLeahonthecouch.jpg

................... Leah and Joy

May12Joystail.jpg


.............. Joy's tail

May12Joystailcloseup.jpg
 
I don't think you can do much for her tail. I just have to bath his in some epson salts, not sure if it does actually help, it just seems to make him happier. I just put a saucer with epsom salts and lay his tail in it while I give him attention. As I said, it's not changed anything, it just makes him comfortable for one reason or another.
 
So they want you to keep her on pred and metacam?

From ratguide...

When (prednisone is) used with NSAIDs will increase GI distress or cause bleeding, use with caution.

It can be done. As for her tail, there's not much you can do.
 
I've seen that before on tails, maybe not so much but always a little bit especially on older rats. We just left it be and it never did seem to hurt them in any way.
 
He said the skin on the last 1/3 of Joy's tail is degloved - the skin is no longer attached to the bone so I afraid to try to wipe her tail or anything.

She is on baytril, clavamox, codene, pred, 3 heart meds. & lasix as needed.
I wanted to get her off the pred and back onto the metacam because I thought it might be better for pain control.
Vets said not to.

I'm glad someone else has seen the end of a ttail like this .... it looks like the pics one day, then the thread like piece is gone, then another slowly grows.

Thank you for the responses.
This is really hard.
 


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