Is this serious / respiratory ?

[ChrisK]

Skittles had tumors removed yesterday and was doing well since. Tonight I noticed her making this chirping-hiccup type noise for a while. Once a minute for about 30 minutes, then less often over the course of the next hour and a half. But then she seemed fine. At the point when the frequency slowed, I put her back in her cage and monitored her. Finally it seemed to stop, but I noticed that her breathing was very rapid. So I went to pet her hoping to calm her breathing, and suddenly she started making this awful grunting type noise. I don't know WHAT that was. Never heard it before and it made me shiver. I called my husband over and he picked her up out of the cage again. We sat with her on the sofa again, and in only a minute or two, she'd stopped making the noise.

After that I gave her cage a complete scrub down, and removed anything that could be fibrous -- i.e. cardboard, tissue paper, etc. After another hour out, I finally put her back in. She sneezed some for a bit, and then settled down okay.

During the earlier bout of hiccups, she was moving around normally. I even saw her eat a bit of fruit. So I was going to chalk it up. But after the grunting, I'm not sure I should.

Does this sound serious? What could the grunting sound be? I'm pretty sure it wasn't her talking to me. It seemed involuntary.

She's still on metacam and baytril as post-surgery meds. She was on baytril for 3 weeks for her abscess, and then off for one week just before the surgery. But now on again as a precaution to stave off infection post-surgery. Is it possible the baytril is not effective?

I'm going to contact our vet tomorrow morning .. but I'd like to have your thoughts before I do... and also any info tonight that might help me understand better. Feeling pretty shaky at the moment...

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

This might be irrelevant but what was the location of the tumors she had removed?

 

[ChrisK]

There were three altogether. One large and two little ones, all mammary tumors and all just below her right armpit.

 

[victoria]

I would call the vet and let him know - he may want to add Doxy or another antibiotic since she seems to have some respiratory symptoms. Not sure what the grunting was. is she back with Lollipop yet? If you feel comfortable putting them together that may help as she may be stressed.

 

[ChrisK]

I would call the vet and let him know - he may want to add Doxy or another antibiotic since she seems to have some respiratory symptoms. Not sure what the grunting was. is she back with Lollipop yet? If you feel comfortable putting them together that may help as she may be stressed.

Thanks. Yes. I put her back in with Lollipop this morning. I don't know if the grunting was "talking" or not. Maybe she was pissed off at me for bothering her? but i've never heard her make such a sound before.. really freaked me out..

Anyway, I could monitor for all symptoms and grunting and will definitely call the vet in the morning..

 

[Dazzle87]

Nope, gruntings definitely not a rat vocalization.

It is possible it needs another antibiotic, but let's make sure she's getting enough baytril. What is the mg/ml, or percentage, the dose, and your girls weight, or approximately at least.

Tumor removals are stressful, which can cause a myco flareup.

 

[jorats]

Like Dazzle87 says... not talking. Rats really shouldn't have any vocalization.
I sounds to me had a momentary influx of fluids either in her nasal cavity or chest. It might have cleared but there's a reason why that happened. Good to call the vet and let him know.
And I also agree to find out what's your dosage at?

 

[ChrisK]

She's on baytril and the bottle says:
15 baytril suspension / ml
.25ml twice daily

(If that's not clear, I have another bottle of baytril on hand which says enrofloxacin 10mg/ml suspension (15ml) )

She weighs approx 510grams.

Does that sound like enough?


Also, the vet gave metacam 1cc once a day for pain control.

 

[Dazzle87]

Hmm im a little unsure if it is 15mg/ml, or 15 ml of 10mg/ml...i hate when the bottle isnt clear.

If it is 15 mg/ml, .25 is 3.75mg, and your girls a little over a pound, so that's not enough for an active respiratory infection, your vet probably did that since it is a preventative. Do you have enough to up the dose to 5mg/lb? Before doing that you need to be sure what the concentration is though, perhaps you could call the vet, the tech who answers should be able to look it up.

 

[ChrisK]

Hmm im a little unsure if it is 15mg/ml, or 15 ml of 10mg/ml...i hate when the bottle isnt clear.

If it is 15 mg/ml, .25 is 3.75mg, and your girls a little over a pound, so that's not enough for an active respiratory infection, your vet probably did that since it is a preventative. Do you have enough to up the dose to 5mg/lb? Before doing that you need to be sure what the concentration is though, perhaps you could call the vet, the tech who answers should be able to look it up.

I called the vets office about the first bottle, and they couldn't tell me the concentration! They said because the baytril was 50mg/ml but was mixed in suspension, so they don't have the resulting concentration on file. (this is a different vet than the one who did the surgery)

The second bottle I have is the one given me by the vet who just did the surgery. That one says 10mg/ml suspension and then over in the corner it says (15ml) as a footnote. So I understand that as this is 15ml of 10mg/ml. The dose he told me to give her originally is .3ml twice daily.

Probably i should go with the second bottle. What would be the proper dose then for an active respiratory infection?

UPDATE:
I just spoke with the vet who did the surgery, and he said to continue the baytril at .3ml twice a day and add doxy twice a day.

Note: I already have a bottle of doxy from 30 December.. that bottle says "Doxycycline hyclate 10mg/ml - 30 ml (1 ea) and the dose I'm supposed to give is .5ml twice a day.

Does this sound correct?

Geech! I'm really over my head with this stuff!

 

[Dazzle87]

Hmm im a little unsure if it is 15mg/ml, or 15 ml of 10mg/ml...i hate when the bottle isnt clear.

If it is 15 mg/ml, .25 is 3.75mg, and your girls a little over a pound, so that's not enough for an active respiratory infection, your vet probably did that since it is a preventative. Do you have enough to up the dose to 5mg/lb? Before doing that you need to be sure what the concentration is though, perhaps you could call the vet, the tech who answers should be able to look it up.

I called the vets office about the first bottle, and they couldn't tell me the concentration! They said because the baytril was 50mg/ml but was mixed in suspension, so they don't have the resulting concentration on file. (this is a different vet than the one who did the surgery)

The second bottle I have is the one given me by the vet who just did the surgery. That one says 10mg/ml suspension and then over in the corner it says (15ml) as a footnote. So I understand that as this is 15ml of 10mg/ml. The dose he told me to give her originally is .3ml twice daily.

Probably i should go with the second bottle. What would be the proper dose then for an active respiratory infection?

UPDATE:
I just spoke with the vet who did the surgery, and he said to continue the baytril at .3ml twice a day and add doxy twice a day.

Note: I already have a bottle of doxy from 30 December.. that bottle says "Doxycycline hyclate 10mg/ml - 30 ml (1 ea) and the dose I'm supposed to give is .5ml twice a day.

Does this sound correct?

Geech! I'm really over my head with this stuff!

Ugh, I know it's very frustrating.

I can't believe a vet would not keep records like that, wow! They should be able to figure it out anyway, all they need to do is some math with how much suspension they added to it.

At 10mg/ml I'd want to give .5ml. 5mg/lb is the best dose for respiratory infections. Your vet could not realize, the best therapeutic dose was recently updated.

Doxy is toxic after 14 days once it is mixed up . The dose on the doxy was fine, high end of the range, but do not use it. If you want a source I'll try to find it, it's just a pita when you're typing on an iPad.

If you don't like confrontation, you could always tell your vet someone threw it away on you and ask to buy some more.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

On a similar note mixed baytril can start to lose its effectiveness after 2 weeks or a month depending on the method that was used to mix it.

 

[smmmiley]

Doxy is toxic after 14 days once it is mixed up .

Well, that's good to know. Why does it become toxic? Where did you find this out?

 

[ChrisK]

Ugh, I know it's very frustrating.

I can't believe a vet would not keep records like that, wow! They should be able to figure it out anyway, all they need to do is some math with how much suspension they added to it.

At 10mg/ml I'd want to give .5ml. 5mg/lb is the best dose for respiratory infections. Your vet could not realize, the best therapeutic dose was recently updated.

Doxy is toxic after 14 days once it is mixed up . The dose on the doxy was fine, high end of the range, but do not use it. If you want a source I'll try to find it, it's just a pita when you're typing on an iPad.

If you don't like confrontation, you could always tell your vet someone threw it away on you and ask to buy some more.

thanks so much for helping !! wow.. no wonder poor girl is having difficulties. The baytril I've been giving her is a few weeks old now. I've been using the stuff from the other vet because she likes the taste of it and takes it as is. The fresh stuff I got from the vet who did the surgery is harder to get her to take. But I will find something that will do the trick..

In the meantime.. about the doxy... I've called and asked for a fresh bottle to pick up today. I'm sure when I'd asked the technician, last time I got some (30 Dec), that they told me it was good until March or April.

So this afternoon I should have what I need to get her healthy... fingers crossed that I can get her to take it all.

 

[jorats]

Wow, that is quite a low dose. Hopefully you have a lot of the second bottle to make it a good month treatment.

 

[Dazzle87]

Doxy is toxic after 14 days once it is mixed up .

Well, that's good to know. Why does it become toxic? Where did you find this out?

It expires after 14 days. A lot of vets for some reason always put the expiration of the powder on bottles, which is irrelevant once it is reconstituted. I've seen this about the expiration many places, I don't have time to look now, but I also got a bottle on the 4th, and the expiration on it was the 19th.

http://www.1800petmeds.com/Doxycycline-prod10340.html

About baytril, the injectable kind lasts up to a year.

 

[victoria]

Most Batryl I have had prescribed at by different vets has had a shelf life of more than two weeks - it really depends how it is compounded. (The stuff I get now lasts for about 2 months.) If it's not clearly labeled, I would ask at the time it's dispensed what the expiry date and concentration is.

The Doxy compounded by most vets is only good for two weeks and, like other tetracyclines, can cause kidney issues if used when expired. You can save money if you have a compounding pharmacy in your area by getting a prescription and getting it compounded to last a month.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Most Batryl I have had prescribed at by different vets has had a shelf life of more than two weeks - it really depends how it is compounded. (The stuff I get now lasts for about 2 months.) If it's not clearly labeled, I would ask at the time it's dispensed what the expiry date and concentration is.

Like I said it depends but if your vet is just taking the injectable or pill form of Baytril and mixing it with flavouring then it's only good for 2 weeks. If it's compounded then it's good for longer but it's always safest to just ask your vet.

 

[ChrisK]

Well, we just finished meds hour. Skittles took .4 or .45cc of the baytril and .3 or .35cc of the doxy.
I'm relieved to have gotten that much into her.

She was pretty good today -- no grunting or chirpy-hiccup episodes. But I did catch her with silent hiccups at one point.

The baytril was originally prescribed as prevention and for 14 days only. When the vet told me today to also give doxy, he said to do so for a week and then call hiim to let him know how it's going, etc.

I'm expecting if this does the trick, that she'll have to be on both for longer than two weeks... what kind of duration should I expect?

Thanks everyone!!!

 

[jorats]

I'd say about 4 to 6 weeks.