Intros with my intact boys - Advice and Analysis needed!

[megan123]

Hi All,

I am on day 5 of intros with my boys, we have done a total of 6 meetings on neutral ground - 4 of these were in the bath tub and then I switched them to the landing of the stairs after a somewhat negative bath tub session.

Sam is around a year old, maybe a bit more. He has always lived alone.
Biscuit and Meatball are around 8 months old and are used to living with multiple other rats.

First 3 meetings had one scuffle per meeting. Two were between Meatball and Sam, one between Sam and Biscuit. They tended to roll into a dervish so I stopped it quickly and then they seemed ~okay again. Sam spent most of these meetings eating lab blocks. However, the bath tub setting seemed to make the younger boys very nervous and there were a couple more serious fights between Sam and Meatball (in which Meatball was the puffer) in the 4th session so I decided to move the intros to the stair landing.

Stair landing intros included vanilla dabbing the three boys. I decided not to give them food in case this is what was causing Sam to be dominant/territorial. I have done two so far and *think* they've gone fairly well but I took a video so opinions are appreciated!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFKEwq8s ... e=youtu.be

Thanks!!

 

[Nekopan]

I'm sure someone here will do a more thorough analysis, but I thought I would give a little bit of input.

It looks very promising! At one point I saw one of your younger boys (sorry, I don't know which is which) stand on his hind legs defensively when Sam approached him. But otherwise, I didn't see any puffed fur or anything, they all remained calm when sniffed and mostly ignored each other. I would do a few more neutral area intros like this before you move on to adding hides or food.

Do you have any coroplast? It might help to corral them all in one area if you cut it to the stairway.

 

[jorats]

Sam is definitely your alpha. But it looked like it went well. How long are your intro sessions? I'd keep it up. But if you see Sam get to puffy, put your hand on him and press him down towards the floor for a few seconds and release.

 

[megan123]

Very short so far. I was at 10 minutes but then we had a bad session so I'm back to 5 ish. I watched your videos from a few years back and I will definitely try that with Sam!

 

[jorats]

If you are able too, since they are so short, do your intros several times a day.

 

[megan123]

Now that it's the weekend I can for sure. What should I look for next and what is the next step I should take?

 

[jorats]

Keep doing what you are doing. They are not ready to progress. No toys. But I would have a plate of soft food like baby cereal or yogurt, force them to eat close to each other.
If Sam becomes very puffy or tries to get on another rat's back, I'd stop that. Push him off and say no.

 

[megan123]

Sounds good. I'll do another session tonight, and will post another video when I can

 

[megan123]

It didn't really go well and Sam didn't let me press him down.
Not happy.
Everything goes fine when Meatball and Biscuit are submissive but every few sessions Meatball gets it into his head to be dominant and then Sam gets all puffy and not nice.

 

[jorats]

What does Sam do when you try to press him down? Does he try to bite you?

 

[megan123]

He doesn't try to bite me but I'm not 100% confident that he wouldn't. He just kind of squirms and runs off.

Did another intro this morning and I let Sam pin Meatball. He got all puffy and pinned him, they had a little frozen moment and then Sam went on his way. It was fine after that.

 

[hopefloats]

There is a rule to follow...

No blood no foul.

Boys generally have to work it out more so than most girl intros. You need to watch out for a rat that is in hot pursuit of another rat. One that is biting to draw blood, or deep puncture wounds. Pinning and little grooming is ok, boxing is also ok. Rat balls and fur flying well that isnt ok either

Boys can be difficult to intro but you seem to be doing good with keeping them in a good place.

 

[jorats]

That's very good that they can move passed it after a pinning. Keep up the intros! Slow and steady wins the race.

 

[megan123]

Thanks guys!
Its definitely stressful for me but I'm definitely willing to be patient and work past any issues because I don't like that Sam is all by himself. Also would rather avoid a neuter if I can, though its definitely something I'm willing to do if all other options have been tried.

 

[megan123]

Doing my third intro session of the day. This one has been 15 - 20 minutes long so far. There was poofing from Sam at the beginning but he got it out of his system at the beginning. I gave them each a tiny piece of lab block and they are all comfortable enough to eat. I added myself to the intro space and they seem to like that. They all jump on and off my lap

 

[hopefloats]

Another thing i have found helpful with boys is either switching cages or if that isnt possible switching items from one cage to another. I do the litter box, food bowls, hidey houses, blankets, hammocks what ever I can. You can put a box in one, they will pee all over a cardboard box, then put it in the others. They mainly have to get used to the other rats smell more so than anything.

 

[megan123]

I have been switching them between cages for a couple weeks, before I started the intros. I will continue to do so during the face to face intros, thanks!

 

[jorats]

Your third intro of the day sounded excellent! Doing good!

 

[megan123]

Day 7, Intro Session # 2...
This is a video of the second half of the session. Sam doesn't like to be confined and if I sit outside of the pen he tries to jump out so I had to sit in there.

If you do not like allergy sounds, turn the sound off because I am sniffling like a maniac in this video and I know that grosses people out

http://youtu.be/gDusTuZ9uXk

 

[jorats]

I always include myself in the intros, unless if I see that it bothers the rats more but it never usually does.

lol frosted flakes is not good for them but you are right, during intros, you want really yummy stuff for them.
Sam is looking really good, not even puffy. That's so awesome. Great intro session.

I used to take Singulair for my allergies to the rats. Maybe that could help you?