victoria
Well-Known Member
I am currently at a loss on how to safely introduce my two groups of rats and I would appreciate some advice...
I'll start by briefly explaining the history and introducing each of my rats:
1st group
I adopted Butterscotch and Oreo in December (they were thought to be 1 year old at the time) as companions for my lone elderly girl. When I tried to introduce them in the bathtub as I always had in the past, the jumped right out and made it all the way to my hip in one jump... more than once. Because of how well they can jump intros in the bathtub are not an option with these girls. Both of these girls were the most people friendly rats I have ever met, Oreo will even hop out of the carrier if I open it at the vets or on the bus and greet perfect strangers. Butterscotch is the bigger of the two (although they are both small) and I think she was the Alpha, albeit an odd one, when they came to me. Oreo on the other hand was always the more curious, easy going one. They are both very persistent and do not give up easily.
After Cloud passed away, I went looking for a few companions for them because I thought it would make them happier. In mid February I adopted Monty (neutered male, approx. 15 months), Annabelle (11 months), and Ava (estimated 10 months by Lyndsy, but I thought she was older) from Henry's Haven. Monty is apparently (I say this because I cannot imagine him being) aggressive towards other males, even neutered ones, so I was warned he can only live with girls. He is in face the sweetest, most laid back rat of the group and popcorns every time I
let him out of the cage and onto my bed. Annabelle (as Lyndsy warned me) is a little eccentric and marches to the beat of her own drum, but is very sweet to her humans now that she's gotten used to them. Ava, as Lyndsy best described her, just wants to be the boss. Ava and Annabelle were the first rats I ever met that rubbed up against me to mark me, although now most of my girls have picked up the habit.
They seemed pretty stressed in my temporary cage (they were in an FN before) so I introduced them to Butterscotch and Oreo rather quickly because I thought the bigger cage would help them feel at ease. At first everything went as expected, the new group had the usual ups and downs that go along with establishing a new hierarchy. Butterscotch took Annabelle under her wing and showed her all sorts of new ways to reap havoc, and Monty and Oreo became a loving couple. It seemed to me that most of the dust ups were between Ava and Butterscotch for the Alpha position (although Annabelle was more of an Alpha than Ava in her last group) and Oreo and Annabelle for the second spot.
The real problem started two weeks after they were together when Ava started hoarding all the food in an igloo and would guard it with dear life. One day Oreo decided she was hungry and kept on trying to take some and Ava instead took a really large chunk out of her hide. It was a superficial wound, about .8cm x .3cm, that she probably inflicted by slowly biting her and then clamping down and yanking. I've seen her do it, she does not seem to be attacking but by the other rat knows what's happening, it's hard to get away unscathed. I tried everything, giving them more food (more than a cup of blocks a day), not putting all in one place, emptying out Ava's stash a couple of times a day, giving soft foods, isolating Ava when she got aggressive, but nothing helped.
Finally, I had a vet appointment that my husband couldn't drive me to so I put all 5 in the carrier and we went on the metro (subway). It worked really well (I got the idea from sketchi putting her boys in an 'island' in her tub with the water running) and things finally seemed to settle. A week later though, she lashed out again, this time at Butterscotch and took two chunks out of her, one on her hind leg that was particularly painful. I took her out of the cage, put her in the temporary cage for a day and then spent 4 hours with the entire group the next day mediating the scuffles until I thought everything was well enough to put them back together.
That was two months ago and everything has been going well. Butterscotch established herself as the Alpha, with Oreo and Ava sharing the Beta position, Annabelle still marches to the beat of her own drum and helps Butterscotch maintain the two igloos/food warehouses, and Monty just tries to find a place to eat in peace. I should note though, I have a double CN and I usually find my rats sleeping in various combinations in the top half, while Ava seems to choose to sleep in a hammock or the igloo on the bottom.
2nd Group
Shortly after I adopted Monty, Ava, and Annabelle, my vet's office called about Grace and Sophie. Their owner had to give them up because of her father's allergy but wanted to make sure they found a good home, so I took them in.
They are a little older than Butterscotch and Oreo and your typical bonded pair in the sense that it's hard to tell who the clear Alpha is. Grace is the more adventurous one and takes care of all the nesting in the cage. Sophie is a little more cautious, I think because of her poor eyesight, but she will always step in to protect Grace.
I tried introducing both groups back in March, but with all the issues going on in the cage already, they went really badly so I chose to step back and start over later. When things have been calm and peaceful in the larger group for more than a month, I decided to try again...
We got of to a good start: I dabbed them all with vanilla extract and held nightly play times in the bathroom with goodies like baby food and oatmeal. The girls on the first group took turns mounting Grace and Sophie repeatedly who were terrified and there were a few scuffles that lead so shallow cuts and tufts of hair pulled out (Monty made the best of the situation and feasted on the plat du jour while the girls were distracted) but each day it got better, so I was happy. Then I brought some toys in to the bathroom (ferret tube, nest box. cuddle cup) and things continued to go well, so we moved into my bedroom, which is where I usually have playtime for the first group.
After a little more that a week of nightly intros, I scrubbed down the CN, changed it around, added a few new goodies that neither group was familiar with and I plopped them all in. I watched them for about an hour, after the predictable scuffles, they each found a spot to sleep (Grace with Monty and Sophie near Ava) and I went to sleep. I did not hear any activity all night (the CN is in our bedroom) and when the alarm went of I asked my hubby to take a look in the cage to see if all was alright and he looked in and said everything was good so I went back to sleep. When I checked myself a little while later though, I realized that Ava had trapped Sophie on the bottom level. She was standing at the top of the ramp and Sophie was terrified at the bottom, standing in her own diarrhea.
I took Ava out and put her in my temporary cage and went back to check on Sophie. She had a really large wound on her side and did not want me to put her down. After an hour, she was still terrified, so I decided to put her and Grace back in their old cage and start again. I took her to the vet that day and plopped all seven into my carrier and they were fine, but when we got to familiar ground Ava got mean again.
Now, both cages are in my bedroom and we have had playtime in the bathroom for another week and half. (I never stopped daily play times together.) But I don't know where to go from here. They are great together in the bathroom, but every time I have tried to move into the bedroom (the first group cannot be trusted anywhere else in the house) the first group goes and tries to invade the second groups cage, even if it's closed, which puts Grace and Sophie on the defensive. I have tried taking the rats to the bathroom, moving both cages out and bringing them back, but Ava freaks right out and starts attacking everyone she can. Yesterday, I almost had to take her out because she kept on picking on Monty and then Oreo when she stepped in to try to help him.
I really don't know what to do. Ava gets aggressive when stressed and I cannot make introductions completely stress free. I'm realistic in that I know there will be some injuries at her paws but I want to minimize their severity and for the victims to not be terrorized. I have bought all new cage liners and have some homemade hammocks and nest boxes ready to go for the next time they go in to the cage together but any other suggestions or insights would be appreciated. I'm sorry the post is so long, I tried to cover everything. Thanks!
I'll start by briefly explaining the history and introducing each of my rats:
1st group
I adopted Butterscotch and Oreo in December (they were thought to be 1 year old at the time) as companions for my lone elderly girl. When I tried to introduce them in the bathtub as I always had in the past, the jumped right out and made it all the way to my hip in one jump... more than once. Because of how well they can jump intros in the bathtub are not an option with these girls. Both of these girls were the most people friendly rats I have ever met, Oreo will even hop out of the carrier if I open it at the vets or on the bus and greet perfect strangers. Butterscotch is the bigger of the two (although they are both small) and I think she was the Alpha, albeit an odd one, when they came to me. Oreo on the other hand was always the more curious, easy going one. They are both very persistent and do not give up easily.
After Cloud passed away, I went looking for a few companions for them because I thought it would make them happier. In mid February I adopted Monty (neutered male, approx. 15 months), Annabelle (11 months), and Ava (estimated 10 months by Lyndsy, but I thought she was older) from Henry's Haven. Monty is apparently (I say this because I cannot imagine him being) aggressive towards other males, even neutered ones, so I was warned he can only live with girls. He is in face the sweetest, most laid back rat of the group and popcorns every time I
let him out of the cage and onto my bed. Annabelle (as Lyndsy warned me) is a little eccentric and marches to the beat of her own drum, but is very sweet to her humans now that she's gotten used to them. Ava, as Lyndsy best described her, just wants to be the boss. Ava and Annabelle were the first rats I ever met that rubbed up against me to mark me, although now most of my girls have picked up the habit.
They seemed pretty stressed in my temporary cage (they were in an FN before) so I introduced them to Butterscotch and Oreo rather quickly because I thought the bigger cage would help them feel at ease. At first everything went as expected, the new group had the usual ups and downs that go along with establishing a new hierarchy. Butterscotch took Annabelle under her wing and showed her all sorts of new ways to reap havoc, and Monty and Oreo became a loving couple. It seemed to me that most of the dust ups were between Ava and Butterscotch for the Alpha position (although Annabelle was more of an Alpha than Ava in her last group) and Oreo and Annabelle for the second spot.
The real problem started two weeks after they were together when Ava started hoarding all the food in an igloo and would guard it with dear life. One day Oreo decided she was hungry and kept on trying to take some and Ava instead took a really large chunk out of her hide. It was a superficial wound, about .8cm x .3cm, that she probably inflicted by slowly biting her and then clamping down and yanking. I've seen her do it, she does not seem to be attacking but by the other rat knows what's happening, it's hard to get away unscathed. I tried everything, giving them more food (more than a cup of blocks a day), not putting all in one place, emptying out Ava's stash a couple of times a day, giving soft foods, isolating Ava when she got aggressive, but nothing helped.
Finally, I had a vet appointment that my husband couldn't drive me to so I put all 5 in the carrier and we went on the metro (subway). It worked really well (I got the idea from sketchi putting her boys in an 'island' in her tub with the water running) and things finally seemed to settle. A week later though, she lashed out again, this time at Butterscotch and took two chunks out of her, one on her hind leg that was particularly painful. I took her out of the cage, put her in the temporary cage for a day and then spent 4 hours with the entire group the next day mediating the scuffles until I thought everything was well enough to put them back together.
That was two months ago and everything has been going well. Butterscotch established herself as the Alpha, with Oreo and Ava sharing the Beta position, Annabelle still marches to the beat of her own drum and helps Butterscotch maintain the two igloos/food warehouses, and Monty just tries to find a place to eat in peace. I should note though, I have a double CN and I usually find my rats sleeping in various combinations in the top half, while Ava seems to choose to sleep in a hammock or the igloo on the bottom.
2nd Group
Shortly after I adopted Monty, Ava, and Annabelle, my vet's office called about Grace and Sophie. Their owner had to give them up because of her father's allergy but wanted to make sure they found a good home, so I took them in.
They are a little older than Butterscotch and Oreo and your typical bonded pair in the sense that it's hard to tell who the clear Alpha is. Grace is the more adventurous one and takes care of all the nesting in the cage. Sophie is a little more cautious, I think because of her poor eyesight, but she will always step in to protect Grace.
I tried introducing both groups back in March, but with all the issues going on in the cage already, they went really badly so I chose to step back and start over later. When things have been calm and peaceful in the larger group for more than a month, I decided to try again...
We got of to a good start: I dabbed them all with vanilla extract and held nightly play times in the bathroom with goodies like baby food and oatmeal. The girls on the first group took turns mounting Grace and Sophie repeatedly who were terrified and there were a few scuffles that lead so shallow cuts and tufts of hair pulled out (Monty made the best of the situation and feasted on the plat du jour while the girls were distracted) but each day it got better, so I was happy. Then I brought some toys in to the bathroom (ferret tube, nest box. cuddle cup) and things continued to go well, so we moved into my bedroom, which is where I usually have playtime for the first group.
After a little more that a week of nightly intros, I scrubbed down the CN, changed it around, added a few new goodies that neither group was familiar with and I plopped them all in. I watched them for about an hour, after the predictable scuffles, they each found a spot to sleep (Grace with Monty and Sophie near Ava) and I went to sleep. I did not hear any activity all night (the CN is in our bedroom) and when the alarm went of I asked my hubby to take a look in the cage to see if all was alright and he looked in and said everything was good so I went back to sleep. When I checked myself a little while later though, I realized that Ava had trapped Sophie on the bottom level. She was standing at the top of the ramp and Sophie was terrified at the bottom, standing in her own diarrhea.
I took Ava out and put her in my temporary cage and went back to check on Sophie. She had a really large wound on her side and did not want me to put her down. After an hour, she was still terrified, so I decided to put her and Grace back in their old cage and start again. I took her to the vet that day and plopped all seven into my carrier and they were fine, but when we got to familiar ground Ava got mean again.
Now, both cages are in my bedroom and we have had playtime in the bathroom for another week and half. (I never stopped daily play times together.) But I don't know where to go from here. They are great together in the bathroom, but every time I have tried to move into the bedroom (the first group cannot be trusted anywhere else in the house) the first group goes and tries to invade the second groups cage, even if it's closed, which puts Grace and Sophie on the defensive. I have tried taking the rats to the bathroom, moving both cages out and bringing them back, but Ava freaks right out and starts attacking everyone she can. Yesterday, I almost had to take her out because she kept on picking on Monty and then Oreo when she stepped in to try to help him.
I really don't know what to do. Ava gets aggressive when stressed and I cannot make introductions completely stress free. I'm realistic in that I know there will be some injuries at her paws but I want to minimize their severity and for the victims to not be terrorized. I have bought all new cage liners and have some homemade hammocks and nest boxes ready to go for the next time they go in to the cage together but any other suggestions or insights would be appreciated. I'm sorry the post is so long, I tried to cover everything. Thanks!
