Intros - extremely aggressive rat.. no improvement yet

[Rattus]

So I have 2 male rats to introduce because their brothers past away, both are roughtly a month from 2 years old. my one boy is fairly calm and is willing to meet the other rat but is extremely cautious and nervous(jumpy) about meeting the other. While my other boy whos is GREAT with people, not agressive at all but when meeting other rats he is.. he cant even get close to the rat without puffing and heavy breathing, he gets defensive immedietly. when my calm boy wants to go see him (showing no signs of aggression) he instinctively attacks him! I have been introducing them in the tub (only for about 2 days yes I know thats not long and this may go for a while) but with his attitude.. its turning me off.. thinking he will not except him. Ive filled the tub with water.. he eventually fights with him again and my other boy is terrified of water he just wants to get out. My aggressive boy has already made 4 puncture wounds in my calm boy =( it just seems no matter what he feels he must fight.. and Im worried it will stay this way and my calm boy will just keep getting bites out of him. I wear oven mites and watch them and when they get too close and a fight breaks out I grab them both apart. I have even covered them with smells and sprayed the tub with perfume and them.. nothing is working......

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

It sounds like your aggressive boy is in need of a neuter. As long as his lungs are clear and he is in good health then the fact that he is almost 2 isn't a huge deal.

 

[Rattus]

sigh I was thinking of that and am wishing I lived in ottawa since theres nowhere closer.. which Im sure someone in ottawa fixes rats... Id have to find a way to get there and stay there since it would be too hard traveling back and forth.. oh the joy lol...............

 

[RKbusy]

Sounds just like my Spook before his neuter! And Monkey... and Splinter actually! You'll be AMAZED at what a neuter will do for him!

I'm in Ottawa, so I would definitely recommend Dr. Moborack at Blackburn Animal Hospital (he charges about $217 per neuter), or I would go with Dr, Kader at Hull Veterinary Clinic (he charges only $120!!) Unfortunately, Dr. Kader will NOT give you metacam unless you ask for it, and he will prescribe this Chloropalm 500 stuff... which... really doesn't do anything I find.

 

[Rattus]

hmmm.. well I guess I may have no choice, I'll give it a few more days and if there is no improvement at all I'll see if I can get down there.... when they get fixed, how long do they have to stay at the vet afterwards? would I have to spend the night in Ottawa or do they just stay a few hours after the surgery?

 

[jorats]

Are they living beside each other?
Next time you do intros, if you feel good about it, can you put them say on a bed and let them walk around but don't let them touch each other. Each time they come close to meet, push the bully away but let them walk around, just no touching. Do this a few times a day for about 15 minutes each time. See how that goes. I too would recommend a neuter. It's too bad you are so far away and it would be quite a trek to make that happen.
Try not to get put off by your boy. He's only reacting to his hormones. It's really not his fault but he doesn't know how else to be right now. If anything, he needs more love and patience from you because he's highly stressed and having a hard time dealing.

 

[RKbusy]

Both Vets that I mentioned ask that you set an appointment day, and then on that day, drop off the rat early in the morning (usually at around 8am). And then I know that at Blackburn Animal Hospital, they usually will call me as soon as the surgery is done, just to let me know if it was successful, and to tell me when would be okay to pick him up (usually that's about 4pm). At Hull, they tend not to call, but if YOU call them, they'll definitely let you know how your boy is doing. And again, pick they up in the late afternoon.

Both places have told me that it would be totally okay if you NEED them to stay overnight.

 

[Rattus]

this has been so stressful.. lol.. been bashing my brains out trying to find a way to kanata to pick up a girl rat.. now going to have to afterward get legion their for a fix and get back... I cant see this happening.. not until people allow pets on the bus........ anic: I thinkI may be screwed lol :shock:

 

[Rattus]

ok so heres whats going on.. I never get to ottawa well not much and for this wednesday coming up I manged to get a random ride up to pick up a female for my girl who is alone, she would get to my house around 8 ish and we would be in ottawa by 10 ish. Im going to keep going with the intros until monday and if theres no improvement by then.. my question is... should I see if I can just get the nueter for wednesday? do you know if that vet does nueters that late in advance(the one that chargers 200 and some) maybe if I explain I am never really able to get to ottawa? and if he can get in dont they need a pre checkup to make sure hes okay for surgery health wise and can they do that on the spot before surgery? and lastly, how long would he have to stay after surgery? if theres a set amount of hours? cause we'd get into ottawa by 10 ish and wed probably be going home by supper time if we had to stay.. is that enough time? it would be amazing if I could get it all done in one shot.. but then again.. it depends on if the vet is even available :?

 

[M0onkist]

As far as normal vet procedures, I had my very first rats neutered in Ottawa (can't honestly remember which vet though). Brought them down early, picked them up midafternoon to early evening.

 

[Fidget]

It sounds like your aggressive boy is in need of a neuter. As long as his lungs are clear and he is in good health then the fact that he is almost 2 isn't a huge deal.

That's the simplest answer.... Easy to say if you have a really rat-savvy & rat-experienced vet. Not everyone does tho, and a month away from 2 yrs old is not the kid to test them on. If you just have the 2 in different cages I'd swith them back & forth between cage every day (without cleaning them first) for a few days, then put them together on my bed or couch right before nap time with a whole bunch of interesting things there that wasn't in either one's cage (newspaper filled bags & boxes with holes cut in them, anything they can go in than that they haven't seen before), I'd sit with them with a hand full of froot loops and only interfere to give treats if a scuffle came up. If you could do that till Mr Aggressive got tired and tried to put Mr Mellow with him with treats to both... Maybe...

 

[henry's_mum]

this is a toughie... I can see the side of smilesnhugs, but agian like fidget says, it's not an age where i'd be comfortable 'testing' my vets abilities.... 2 is 2, lets face it.
IT is true that if he's healthy and your vet is good with small animal surgeries, then the risks are low, but, you don't know this vet, and I don't either so I can't say what to do, I just know for me, neutering at 2 would be IF anything else didn't work...
but that's just me.
Did you try what Jo suggested?

 

[Rattus]

I tryed yesturday, Im going to try again now and also put them in each others cages.. the bed thing worked kinda.. they walked around and smelt each others pee spot.. but everntually legion wanted to get to constantine and would almost come up running and puff and back his bum up.. and when I push him away and attempts the same thing.. he cannot smell him without wanting to bite him.. could an aggrssive rat like this eventually just get fed up with trying to attack? and my calm boy is almost scared of him it seems cuz he doesnt like to fight and knows legion will attack.. so when legion gets near he starts wining a bit and looks terrified.. but Im going to keep trying.. I just feel bad cause I can tell they are getting real stressed out everytime..

 

[Bamboo]

ok so heres whats going on.. I never get to ottawa well not much and for this wednesday coming up I manged to get a random ride up to pick up a female for my girl who is alone, she would get to my house around 8 ish and we would be in ottawa by 10 ish. Im going to keep going with the intros until monday and if theres no improvement by then.. my question is... should I see if I can just get the nueter for wednesday? do you know if that vet does nueters that late in advance(the one that chargers 200 and some) maybe if I explain I am never really able to get to ottawa? and if he can get in dont they need a pre checkup to make sure hes okay for surgery health wise and can they do that on the spot before surgery? and lastly, how long would he have to stay after surgery? if theres a set amount of hours? cause we'd get into ottawa by 10 ish and wed probably be going home by supper time if we had to stay.. is that enough time? it would be amazing if I could get it all done in one shot.. but then again.. it depends on if the vet is even available :?

If I were you I'd call a bunch of vets in the area and see if anyone can do Legion's neuter while you're here on Wednesday...it's worth a try while you're out here. It may turn out that you have to come back due to short notice, but cross that bridge when/if you come to it.

 

[Fidget]

I'd do the cage-switching and having them out together with me right there and giving 'aggressive guy' treats hoping he would finally see the other as a good thing to have around. But I've had kids that no amount of good intros or prep could fix. The thing about intro instructions is that something's gonna work for someone but not someone else because all the kids are individuals - every group is a different dynamic and it only takes one kid with power - or blackballing - in the group to mess up intros.
Try best you can and protect the underdog. and yes, it can work when it hasn't before, they could be best buddies suddenly and you don't even know what changed. But sometimes it's just not gonna happen either without a neuter. And dare I say - even with one on a rare occasion (Kisses Alfred)

 

[jorats]

I`m going to move this to behaviour because I completely missed your update.

You can keep trying. He might get used to the idea of another rat in the house.
How is he when you push him away, does he try and bite you?

 

[Rattus]

no, he doesnt try at all really, if I catch him off guard he jerks a bit but stops.. mostly I push him away then he runs aropund my hand and walks right back over to constantine like he has no fear and then puffs again.

 

[jorats]

If he was an aggressive rat, he would spin around and bite you when you try to move him. This is good news. Continue to not allowing him to touch Constantine. Also have some yummyfoods out when they are running around.