Injections for URIs??

[la_marée_haute]

For about 2 weeks my boys were taking Doxy and Baytril together. Well, sort of. They WOULD NOT (just trust me - they're unsocialised and wouldn't) take them with custard or baby food etc etc etc, and forcing the meds down their throats was horrible. And they'd usually just spit it all out.

I thought, maybe, they didn't ghave URIs for a while. So I stopped the meds for about another two weeks, and changed their litter and etc. But they got worse. Rang my vet, she was busy, but vaguely said today that they could have injections? Since it's hard to medicate them any other way for me.

That's all she said, but I'm coming in soon to talk to her more and she can examine my boys. Does anyone have any experience with injections for URIs? Do you think it's a sensible idea?

I'm sorry if "injections" (I'm not even sure if it's just one or a course, either) if very vague, but as I said, she was busy and had to go.

Thanks, any comments or help would be appreciated. I just want my boys to get better. I actually AVOID out time recently because I HATE hearing their congested noises. The sneezing has stopped now and they just have loud noises coming from their chests when they breathe and sniff. :cry:

Laura. Who is worried beyond belief.

 

[user 78]

I really don't suggest injections under any circumstances. Many medications can actually cause necrosis at the injection site, abscessing, or general irritation. Really not fun for the rat.

Do they like the baby food, custard, etc before you put the medications into it? Most rats are very cautious about new foods. They can't vomit, so if they eat something bad, they're stuck with it. Instinct tell them that could be a very bad thing. Some rats won't eat new things until someone else in the group has tried it and didn't die.

I would ask your vet about different flavorings if they can. If not, maybe see if they can give you a higher concentration so you don't have to get as much medication into them.

 

[jorats]

The vet could give a one time shot of baytril. But I too don't recommend continual injections for any length of time.
Any chance you can wrap the rat in a towel and squirt the meds in?

Those poor boys, and poor you having to deal with this for your first time.

 

[la_marée_haute]

Now I don't know what to do. I'm crying. I cannot deal with this. And I REALLY can't be bothered arguing with my vet. Especially when she is thinking about employing me.

What I did was try to wrap them up in a towel, but they squirm too much even like that, and they still spit it all our eventually... or all of it gets on the towel. I try and get other people to help me so it's not just a two handed job, but they squirm even more then, because people terrify them... especially strange people.

Do they like the baby food, custard, etc before you put the medications into it?

Nope, not really. They hate anything mushy. And they can always taste/smell the meds in whatever anyway, so they avoid it. I wasted so much medication trying those sort of tricks.

I really don't know what to do. The breeder won't help me, either. At all. She thinks I'm doing something wrong, like using dusty litter or keeping them in a draft.

I'm so frustrated.

 

[lilspaz68]

If the only option you have is injections then just do it. They need the meds it sounds like, and its not going in any other way. Its not a preferable method but it seems to be your only option. Breeder rats afraid of people? I am soo sorry

 

[Godmother]

If it's really a serious URI you may have to go with an injection for the short term. Longer term you could get them hooked on the foods that you will doctor their meds with.

It's easier if you can take the time to experiment instead of having to try new things when the stakes are high. I used to take up to half an hour to get meds into Rhonda (whom I adopted when she was almost a year). My younger rats, who've been with me since they were 5-6 weeks old, are easier to medicate.

Mine used to be very suspicious of new food (the littlest girls still are -- even held back from my husband's porridge!!) until they grew to trust me.

I now have several things that they will accept as base for medication. Chicken broth with a bit of something sweet (Lyle's Golden syrup works) will make Baytril palatable to them. SQ used honey and broth to mix the meds, then soaked it into a bit of bread. I am now using a drop of olive oil, a drop or so of strawberry Nesquick, sometimes a few drops of Rice Dream (no calcium, therefore OK to use with Doxy), and a bit of baby cereal.

The key is to be able to do it under more relaxed conditions, I think.

 

[starfoot]

The most successful thing I've used to hide my baytril in is tea.... with a little bit more sugar than normal to drown out the sour baytril and I rarely have problems... I have often put drops in their water as well, but that's onlt when you can guarantee only the infected ones are drinking it.

Have a go with sweet tea, they may find it easier as they can drink it rather than eat it... and make sure it's not hot, barely even warm really, and fingers crossed you should be ok.

In terms of injections, I don't agree with them long term, but yes they are an option if there are difficulties elsewhere. I hope your boys wise up to taking meds orally. fingers crossed... and best wishes to you all xxx

 

[la_marée_haute]

Thanks guys, very helpful. When I go to the vets tomorrow, to confirm AGAIN that they do in fact BOTH have URIs, I think I'll just get oral meds. I'll have another go. It's such a nightmare, but oh well. INjections don't sound good.

With putting Doxy and Baytril (is it together or seperate by the way?) into food, won't it matter if they don't eat/lick/lap ALL of whatever it is? My boys didn't get better after over 2 weeks of shoving JUST the meds down their throats... I'd hate to waste money on meds and then they don't get enough, ya know?

Thanks again.

Sigh..

 

[SQ]

Myco needs to be treated for a min of 6 weeks, or symptoms come back soon.

They do need to take all of the meds - the trick seems to be to get them to think they are getting a treat and also to try different things as sometimes they get tired of one mixture.

Just spent 2 hours getting meds into Ralphie so I can relate.
You can always put some on their mouth and if it tastes good, they will groom it off themselves.

 

[chicky82]

I'm sorry you are having trouble with medicating, it's so frustrating knowing that they have to have it but feeling bad that you have to give it to them when they won't co-operate
I medicated my guys with tiny bit of cool whip on a spoon, they practically inhaled it
I've also used ensure on the end of the syringe, it's sneaky but works, you put the amount in and dab the end in the ensure and offer it to them, they'll lick the ensure off but while they lick it, you quickly press the plunger :lol: they'll get it down before they realize the icky taste HA!
and by the time it's time to do it again, they'll have forgotten and will just want the ensure again

 

[Dewi]

I use to have trouble with medicating my rats but I now have a system that works well. It cots a bit with getting set up though.

I hide these anitibiotics in a mixture of Nutrigel and soy baby formula. To make about 60 mL of the nutrigel/ soy milk mixture, I mix a small quantity of nutrigel (say about 1 level teaspoon) in about 50 mL water, then add enough baby formula to get a thickish consistency (about the same consistency as a milkshake).

The vet always gives me vibravet paste, which is the doxycycline. Into a tiny dry dish I squirt a single dose of vibravet paste. I then add a single dose of baytril. I mix the two antibiotics together. Then I add about 5mL of the nutrigel/ soy milk mixture to the antibiotics. The rats love it. Each rat gets their own separate dish of the antibiotic/nutrigel/soy milk mixture.

Nutrigel you can get from the vet and it costs about $10 to $18, depending on the size of the tube. I'm not sure what state you're in, but you can definately buy this in NSW and QLD. The soy baby formula costs about $20. So it's not cheap, but it keeps for ages and the mixture is also good for fattening rats up if they ever start losing weight.

Dewi

 

[la_marée_haute]

I CANNOT do this. I have medicine all over the floor and myself right now, and my face and arms are bleeding. There is NO way they will take Baytril and Doxyvet. And guess what? THEY'RE MOST PROBABLY GOING TO BE ON THEM FOR LIFE.

I can't do this. I won't do it anymore. I ******* give up. Nothing works. Nothing will work. Nothing has ever worked.

I guess they're going to die, then. AWEEEEEEEESOME.

ETA: I'm sorry about that. But... I just... can't do it. NO matter what, they won't take their medication. And their relationship with me because of this is getting SOOOOOOOOO bad. One day before they started these meds all over again, they were so socialised that they'd beg me for out time. Now they hide from me. Everything is just messed up and I don't know what to do. Trust me, I have tried everything. This is getting CRAZY. And what am I supposed to do? They have to have these meds all of their lives if things don't improve, apparently. :cry: Their URIs are so bad, that I can hear their sounds from the other room.

I almost choked one of them to death from trying to medicate. And they're both so stressed out after today's ordeal, that they have porphorin all over them. This is braking my heart.

I've even gone as far as to just rub the meds on them, so they'll groom them off. But no. They're that opposed to them that they'll just rub themselves on the liners for hours. NO grooming.

Help.

 

[Dewi]

What foods have you tried to hide the meds in? What volumes & doses of the antibiotics are you giving? About how much of the "mixer" (e.g yoghurt, tea etc.) have you used?

Alternatively, you could give your rats Betamox (amoxicillin) and baytril rather than vibravet & baytril. The vibravet is hard to disguise. You can get raspberry flavoured (or something like that) Betamox and it hides better in strawberry yoghurt (I use Ski Divine yoghurt). I've found that the baytril is disguised well in strawberry yoghurt aswell.

A previous vet of mine uses an injectable sulpha based antibiotic on mice and guinea pigs. I have no idea if its safe or any good for rats, but maybe it's worth asking the vet about.

Dewi

 

[user 78]

Did you ask your vet for a higher concentration so you didn't have to give them as much? There's a very big difference from .1cc and .03cc. Did you ask about changing the flavor of the Baytril?

Maybe ask your vet to show you how you might force medicate them. We can all describe how we do it until we're blue in the face, but actually seeing it may help you. Perhaps contact the breeder and ask for them to show you how they do it.

Medicating is a fact of life with rats, as awful as it is. Every rat will be on meds at some point in their lives, but it's hardly guaranteed from day one that they'll need to be on meds for the rest of their lives. While breeder rats are generally much, much healthier than your average pet store rat, it sounds like your's aren't so much. It may be that if you can get them past this they'll be perfectly fine, but there is the possibility that they'll continue to get sick for the rest of their lives. It's entirely dependent on their genetics and environment.

 

[ratrescuer]

la please e-mail me I am giving injections now for 4 days and it is working. I have tried the baytril and doxcy together and it does not work they hate it. Please try the bayril by itself. I use custard yogart strawberry/banana. They need a cortizone inj. now to get the inflamation down (dexamethazone) and prednizone liq for awhile after that. I rescue sick ratties and deal with this alot. This little rattie I have now was very sick and could not breath we got her on ginamyacin inject and dexamethizone inject I thought she was going to die she was cold and her feet were turning blue from not being able to breath the dex really has help. If you can not do inject you can give the liq pred. Take care