I think Clair might have CHF??

[Petunia]

I had Clair checked out when Tilly went in for her lumpectomy (9/21) because I was concerned that she just seemed "off" but the vet found nothing wrong except perhaps some early arthritis because she's heavy and has trouble walking.

Well I've continued to feel that something was not quite right, she sleeps an awful lot and doesn't run around much- she used to be my most reckless explorer. I chalked it up to her aging, but she's not yet 2 (birthday is Dec 30th, so she's about 22 mos now)

Tonight she was having trouble climbing up me while we were watching the news and I happened to stroke her tail and noticed that the end of it is cold :shock:

Her feet are not blue, though.

If she had CHF, wouldn't the vet have noticed something different during the exam last month? (3 weeks ago)

should I be concerned, or is her slowing down more likely due to age than something like a heart problem?

off to Google CHF in rats....

 

[Godmother]

When a rat slows down there can be a lot of reasons. She is entering the age of risk. If she is not climbing and has gained weight, then it could be a heart or lung problem. When you say she has trouble walking, have you found her more clumsy? Does she fall easily? Maybe you could post a video of her. I recall that my dearest Corrie (RIP), who was always the most agile climber of all my rats, gradually developed motor problems. She would fall or be unable to make jumps or climbs that had been easy for her. Turned out she had a slowly-developing PT.

I've had a few rats with heart problems. One of Corrie's daughters was always heavier and less able to climb than the others, and she had an enlarged heart. However, that whole family of rats was prone to respiratory issues that could have led to the heart problem by putting long-term strain on the heart.

Did your vet listen to her lungs? I don't think they can detect CHF from listening to the heart, but lung problems can put a strain on the heart. ONce the heart can't do its job properly, fluid doesn't get cleared from the lungs and sometimes there is fluid retained in other tissues. Debbie Ducommun's Rat Health Care booklet suggests that
a low-risk way to check for heart problems is to give Benazepril (or one of the other similar drugs) for a few days to see if the rat improves. If so, then it is probably a heart problem. An X-ray will determine whether the heart is enlarged, and other meds can be added as appropriate.

I don't know how common it is for rats to have arthritis, although they often develop HED (Hind End Degeneration). That slows them down, of course.

Good luck figuring out what is happeing with your sweetie. Keep us posted.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Does she sleep with her head hanging off of shelves or ledges? (can sometime be a sign of a heart condition) Or if you are thinking more towards PT then try giving her a cherrio to eat and watch and see if the can hold herself up properly while holding the cherrio in both paws.

 

[Petunia]

When a rat slows down there can be a lot of reasons. She is entering the age of risk. If she is not climbing and has gained weight, then it could be a heart or lung problem. When you say she has trouble walking, have you found her more clumsy? Does she fall easily? Maybe you could post a video of her. I recall that my dearest Corrie (RIP), who was always the most agile climber of all my rats, gradually developed motor problems. She would fall or be unable to make jumps or climbs that had been easy for her. Turned out she had a slowly-developing PT.

I've had a few rats with heart problems. One of Corrie's daughters was always heavier and less able to climb than the others, and she had an enlarged heart. However, that whole family of rats was prone to respiratory issues that could have led to the heart problem by putting long-term strain on the heart.

Did your vet listen to her lungs? I don't think they can detect CHF from listening to the heart, but lung problems can put a strain on the heart. ONce the heart can't do its job properly, fluid doesn't get cleared from the lungs and sometimes there is fluid retained in other tissues. Debbie Ducommun's Rat Health Care booklet suggests that
a low-risk way to check for heart problems is to give Benazepril (or one of the other similar drugs) for a few days to see if the rat improves. If so, then it is probably a heart problem. An X-ray will determine whether the heart is enlarged, and other meds can be added as appropriate.

I don't know how common it is for rats to have arthritis, although they often develop HED (Hind End Degeneration). That slows them down, of course.

Good luck figuring out what is happeing with your sweetie. Keep us posted.

Hi
well she's always been heavy and she has seemed to put on a little weight recently- I'll have to weigh her to be sure- but she's eating more, so the weight gain, if any, would be from that.

Her trouble walking is hard to describe. (sorry no video camera/cell phone, so can't get a video) The vet watched her walk and checked her out for HED, that was the first thing I thought of. I don't have experience with aging rats, these are my first ones, so I don't know what all the things are that can go wrong.

anyway the vet said she does not have any neurological problems and that she does not have HED- at least she didn't 3 weeks ago


she does seem clumsy, yes, I guess that's part of it. Her weight alone slows her down of course (she's about 500 grams)

well her tail is warm today!! whew!! it was cold after she had tried to climb up the front of me, so I'll check and see if it only gets cold when she's active. She is sleeping now.

 

[Petunia]

Does she sleep with her head hanging off of shelves or ledges? (can sometime be a sign of a heart condition) Or if you are thinking more towards PT then try giving her a cherrio to eat and watch and see if the can hold herself up properly while holding the cherrio in both paws.

she sometimes sleeps with her head hanging out of the hammock but all my rats have done that from time to time.

the other thing that she was doing that scared me a bit was she'd go to a corner of the cage and press up against the bars and stay there for a long time- This is what a hospice rat I had used to do and he had myco and CHF (confirmed finally by a vet)

I don't know anything about PT, but she usually eats with one paw, she uses the other to steady herself but I am assuming this is because she's heavy. Her sister, who is actually heavier than she is, would do the same thing.

I'll google PT and see what that's all about. I try not to read about these things in advance because I'm afraid I'll start seeing symptoms of issues that don't exist, know what I mean? when you're not familiar with these illnesses/conditions, you don't know if the symptoms are really obvious or subtle and so you may misinterpret the least little thing as being a sign of something serious.

 

[jorats]

the other thing that she was doing that scared me a bit was she'd go to a corner of the cage and press up against the bars and stay there for a long time

A few of ours with pulmonary abscesses did that too.

 

[Petunia]

the other thing that she was doing that scared me a bit was she'd go to a corner of the cage and press up against the bars and stay there for a long time

A few of ours with pulmonary abscesses did that too.

oh.
Oh.
well, she's never had a URI before. (??) But she does get what looks like hiccups when sometimes after she first wakes up-
now I've read different things about this: that it's just hiccups, or that only rats with a resp infection do this.

there'll be a kind of loud clicking noise.

Can she have a resp infection/myco that's caused lung issues, without ever having obvious symptoms of an infection?

should I be taking her in to get her antibiotics?


she looks a lot better today then she did last night. she's getting around pretty well and is eating and snuggling and all, tail is warm.

 

[Godmother]

There is disagreement about the meaning of hiccups. I don't do anything if I see it happen once. But if I see a rat hiccup for two or three days in a row, especially when it lasts for more than half a minute, I put them on antibiotics for myco (usually Baytril & Doxycycline). That has always stopped it, so I assume that the hiccups in those cases were a sign of a respiratory infection.

Rats are so prone to URIs that it would not surprise me if they could develop lung abscesses without having shown obvious signs of problems. It is one of the worst things about having pet rats, seeing them suffer at the end from bad lungs.

So you can just watch your sweetie and take action if something obvious happens. Doesn't sound like PT, though.

 

[Petunia]

thanks Godmother

I'll keep an eye on her. Today she looks fine!! whew.

I guess at her age, she just has her "days".

at least, I hope that's all it is.
I don't know if I could stand losing any of my girls right now.

I am still missing Tessa so much!

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Have you "rat phoned" her to see if he lungs sound gurgly (like full of something)?

 

[Petunia]

Have you "rat phoned" her to see if he lungs sound gurgly (like full of something)?

oh for pete's sake, no, I haven't - and I don't know why I haven't!! :emb:

just did it now and she sounds fine! :dance:

she'd make really nice ear warmers :giggle: