I think Armand had a stroke - He's gone :(

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mandycoot

Active Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
40
Location
Austin, TX
I believe my 30-month-old Armand has a stroke last night. I found him at the bottom of he and his brother's FN, clutching the bars to try to keep himself from falling over. He was very cold, limp, confused-seeming, and uncoordinated, and seems paralyzed on one side. I game him some Metacam and put him in a carrier with a heating pad and checked up on him thoughout the night (I figured the e-vet couldn't do much more than that :? ). He wouldn't eat or drink and and I think he is having a hard time swallowing.

I got him to the vet early this morning and they gave him sub-q fluids to rehydrate him. My reguar vet isn't in on Mondays but one of the other vet guessed that he potentially had a few things going on: he had a stroke, a PT ruptured a blood vessel and brought the paralysis on suddenly, or something was going on with his vestibular system. With the first and last, he has a chance of recovering, right? He is currenly on Metacam and Baytril, but so far his condition is the same as last night.

My biggest worry is that he *will* start recovering on his own but will still need nursing care, which I won't be able to easily give to him should he become more alert. For those of you know know my "bitey boys" and their history, you'll recall that Armand is a very aggressive rat and will leap at you to bite you if you get near him. Right now he is very out of it and I can stroke him and syringe-feed him no problem, but I'd never be able to do any of it were he healthy.

Basically, I'm looking for your experiences with rats recovering from strokes or other things which can cause paralysis. Is is reasonable to hope that he will recover without needing me to nurse him as he regains strength and alertness? Is it reasonable to hope that he will recover at all? We're basically taking a "wait and see" approach with him, and I have a follow-up appointment Wednesday with my main vet to check into his progress or decline.
 
Oh no... I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.
This sounds somewhat what my sister's Berma went through. We weren't sure if it was PT or stroke. PT's can hemorrhage into the brain causing all sorts of neurological symptoms.

Berma did get a bit better, she had to be syringe fed and bathed everyday. She was so frustrated, you could see her trying so hard, she would clutch at the bars to try and keep herself straight, it was the hardest thing to watch.
It was clear she was not going to get any better, we had her on Baytril and metacam. At the time, we didn't bring in to the vet because my vet was still on vacation and there's no way they would have given us Dex or even pred. They are very strict with their meds there.
But we decided to have Berma pts. She wasn't even a year old. :cry:

eta... to be quite honest, the kindest thing for Berma was to be pts. I'm not the type of person to recommend euthanasia. but the days we kept her "alive" still haunt me.
 
Oh no, strokes are terrible. I'm so sorry, Mandy. And the fact that it happened to one of your not-so-social boys just makes it worse. If he does have a chance to recover, and you have to administer medications, maybe see if you can get them all as injectable? I've had to give aggressive rats medication(s) before, and it's... quite the trip. Fitzherbert bit the syringe in half a couple of times :roll:
 
One thing I just wanted to let you know, I have had some boys in the past that have been extremely aggressive and have had issues and needed some health care help from me. Sometimes they realize its a good thing you are helping them and the aggression MAY go down.

My only experience with paralysis has been using pred, never tried the dex personally but others here have had great results with it. Even in the case when I gave pred to Lightning who had major paralysis issues, he needed plug checks still and I also cleaned his ears. In his case he used to try to bite me when we first did plug checks, he calmed down after a few sessions.
 
My dear Emma recently had a stroke, too, but it doesn't seem as bad as his but she also seemed partially paralyzed on one half. She was put on Ditrim and by the next day she was already getting better (I went to Como and saw Dr. Casey, btw, he was very knowledgable about strokes in rats).

I'm sorry you have to go through this. :(
 
Thanks for your help and good wishes everyong. :)

Ktina said:
My dear Emma recently had a stroke, too, but it doesn't seem as bad as his but she also seemed partially paralyzed on one half. She was put on Ditrim and by the next day she was already getting better (I went to Como and saw Dr. Casey, btw, he was very knowledgable about strokes in rats).

I'm sorry that this happened to you recently too. :( I saw Dr. Casey this morning, actually. He seemed very nice and knowledgeable but I have this nagging feeling that I should have been more forceful about getting some pred or a shot of dex or something. :? He said just to continue with the metacam as it isn't as hard on their systems, but I feel like maybe Armand needs something stronger. I'm planning to call Dr. Stueve tomorrow when he's in and ask his advice.

He's been sleeping all afternoon. I keep bothering him to make sure he's still breathing and periodically give him some soy baby formula. Poor bud.
 
Definitely push for a steroid. metacam is a poor second in this type of case.

I can only hope that your bitey Armand settles in for nursing and is a good boy. Its amazing how normally independent and aggressive rats will turn to us in times of need. Even my Wildlings do that.
 
Ugh, I feel awful, I knew I should have been more adamant about the pred. I'm calling tomorrow morning to talk with the regular vet. I'm so worried about Armand, he's been just lying on his side since late this morning. :(
 
I wanted to thank everyone hear for their kind wishes and wonderful advice. Sadly, Armand passed during the night. I think that at the point he was at death was probably the kindest thing for him. I am worried now about his bother Magnus, who so distraught. :(

I just wanted to share a picture of my bitey boys together when they were younger. Armand is on the right. You can see his narrowed eyes -- he always looked like that, giving him the nickname "Angry Armand." :lol:
 
Thank you guys. :heart: Yes, Magnus is alone now. :( As long as he was with Armand I never dared attempt an introduction, but I'm planning to try to intro him to my big group so he won't be lonely.
 


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