HELP! HE IS BLEEDING FROM HIS MOUTH!!!!!

[la_marée_haute]

It's gushing out! My mum and I were trying to medicate him, and the syringe just gently touched his lips, and the next thing I know my hand is soaked with blood!

My mum won't take me to the vets because she thinks they won't take rats for emergencies! She wants me to just wait and "see how he goes"! WHAT?!!!!!! HE'S SPITTING OUT BLOOD!

And NO it's not porphorin, it came from his MOUTH and is COMING form his mouth!

What do I do? CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP? I'm too scared to touch him!

Could he have been so nervous that... he started to bleed? I SWEAR I didn't even get the syringe onto his tongue!

:!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

ETA: It has slowed down now. I'm trying to check his mouth, but it's difficult. I cannot see any little cuts or anything... but maybe I'm just missing something. Whatever happened I'm so scared. I was already having a hard enough time medicating them, and now this? I'm at my witt's end! I'm terrified and upset, and angry. He NEEDS his medicine but my mum has strongly advised against it tonight. I guess I can see why, but it's another set back. That's what gets to me. Why is the world against me and helping my rats be healthy?!?!

GAHHHHHHHHH.

ETA: Thanks for the help, guys. LOL I'm joking. It's OK, as far as I can see, it's stopped, and he's ALRIGHT. I'll certainly keep a very close eyes o him, though. He's on my desk right now. I guess he probably just cut it, or bit his tongue, etc. I'm still traumatized, though. I'm shaking so much... more than usual. (I have a bad iron deficieny and I'm always shaky anywho).

What a week.

 

[starfoot]

Oh god!! I'm glad it's under control now... how is he doing? Still on your desk? Poor guy... and poor you!! Did you manage to get a look in his mouth?

Gushing out? Might it have been an abscess that popped? Or was he a bit lively and bit his tongue while going for the meds? I honestly don't know... but I'm glad it's stopped now...

He does need his meds, is there any way you can mix them in something soft and let him eat them for himself? Also keep a check on his food, and that he keeps eating... if he stops he will be in discomfort and there may be an infection in his mouth or something... I've no idea where the blood came from... just keep him eating... and try your best to get the meds into him... try warm sweet tea on a spoon with his meds in... that way even id he doesn't take it, you can suck it up in a syrynge and try gently giving it to him as you were before...

Keep us updated as to anything you find, and your poor guys progress.

Chin up.. lets see how he goes

 

[la_marée_haute]

Oh god!! I'm glad it's under control now... how is he doing? Still on your desk? Poor guy... and poor you!! Did you manage to get a look in his mouth?

Gushing out? Might it have been an abscess that popped? Or was he a bit lively and bit his tongue while going for the meds? I honestly don't know... but I'm glad it's stopped now...

He does need his meds, is there any way you can mix them in something soft and let him eat them for himself? Also keep a check on his food, and that he keeps eating... if he stops he will be in discomfort and there may be an infection in his mouth or something... I've no idea where the blood came from... just keep him eating... and try your best to get the meds into him... try warm sweet tea on a spoon with his meds in... that way even id he doesn't take it, you can suck it up in a syrynge and try gently giving it to him as you were before...

Keep us updated as to anything you find, and your poor guys progress.

Chin up.. lets see how he goes

Thanks so much, you've helped me feel a lot.. calmer. Lol.

Well as far as giving him his meds by disguising them, it just doesn't work. LOL I tried your great suggestion of tea, too, but he had about two licks and then realised... gave me a look of shock, and ran off. :roll:

I'll have to stay up quite late tonight though and I'll keep trying. I'm scared to try forcing the meds down again, but it's usually the best way (despite the scratches and squeeks and spillages) to get at least SOME of it in him. I'll try mixing the meds in something again first, but if once again he refuses, I'll see if I can wake my mum so she can try and help with the syringe again.

What's bothering me right now is how much money we're wasting with these meds. I swear so much of it get spilt or spat out every night before anyone actually gets medicated.

Anyway, thanks again. He is still with me, and he's acting normal. He's terrified, but he's always like that. Lol. Drinking and eating too. I keep having a look in his mouth, and whenever I succeed even a little, so far I can't see anything. But as I said, I'll be keeping an incredibly close eye on him. Perhaps I'll even do an all-nighter tonight.

Thank you.

 

[starfoot]

Two licks and ran off!! Cheeky!! With my young one Noodle who's currently on Baytril for chestiness, i mix the baytril n tea on a spoon, tehn suck it into a syringe, then dip the end off the syringe in a bit of sugar... I'm not a fan of them having so much sweet stuff, but if it gets the meds down, then it's ok for now!

And wasting money on meds... tell me about it! They can be such naughty little things!! But often quite a bit will go in, as any on their faces will have to be washed off... but you get the odd wick one who'll rub their chin along the ground so as not to have to touch the meds! How bad... even if you have to syringe it in his mouth.. still try to mix it with a little biot of something to take the sour edge of the medicine, it'll make it a bit more bearable for him.

I shouldn't worry about doping an all nighter if he's eating and drinking ok... just do your best to get meds in him, and keep an eye on his mouth... there's nothing more you can do, or need to do really! You're doing well already... just keep him comfy and as happy as he can be.

Is he eating solids? If so that's a great sign, as any infection in his mouth where it was bleeding would have caused swelling and discomfort enough to stop him eating hard foods... but if he is, then all looks ok... I shouldn't worry too much at all....

Just keep an eye on things, and give him lots of get better scritches from me

 

[la_marée_haute]

Ummm... SUCCESS!!! I can't believe it. I decided to mix his meds in with some chocolate soy ice cream on the off chance that he'd take like... half a lick. A minute later, the plate is clean!

I can really sleep easy tonight, now. Thanks SOOO much, starfoot. If it wasn't for you encouraging me to have another try at disguising his meds, I probably wouldn't have even tried to give them to him tonight, or I would have gone through the syringe ordeal again. *Hugs*

I'll update you all tomorrow on how he is generally going, and I'll let you guys know if anything is up with his mouth. He is going very well now. Eating solids, yes. Emergency my behind. Lol. I'm sorry everyone. I guess you can all understand my panic though. Next time I'll just step back and evaluate the situation for a while BEFORE alerting the media. It probably was just his tongue. But as I said, I will be watching him carefully.

Oh, btw, I was too stressed to even say who "he" is. It was dearest Albin who's mouth was bleeding. My scaredy rat. Well, of course Olivier is also scared, but Albin more-so. :roll:

 

[starfoot]

Oh poor guy... but fantastic news that he's taking meds! You know what to use in the future now... So happy!

yeh, keep us updated, and hopefully no more bleeding... and if there is, in thye off chance, don't worry, so long as there is no infection, rats are pretty incredible at recovering from physical injury... resiliant little things they are!

Keep going with the meds, and ((hugs)) back to the both of you xxxx

 

[user 78]

He may have bit his tongue or scratched his mouth in some way in his struggle. Wounds around the face and mouth always seem to bleed horribly, but it's more to do with how many small blood vessels are involved not the actual quantity of blood lost. If it's stopped bleeding then it's probably already healed over. Rats are very fast healers and small cuts and scratches don't last long.

 

[Godmother]

what a relief that the bleeding stopped on its own! I have heard of rats bleeding to death very quickly when their tongue gets cut. I would be panicky, too, if it happened to one of my girls.

And HURRAY that the chocolate soy works! Your life has suddenly become a lot easier....

 

[Moon]

I'm so happy that he's not bleeding, and you found something to hide meds in. Yay!

I second what Javakittie says... mouth injuries can seem worse than they really are. Same with toes.

 

[SQ]

Hope you are able to find something else he really likes because chocolate isn't good for rats.

Glad he stoped bleeding.

I mix my baytril, etc. with a bit of liquid strawberry quick, a drop of olive oil, and some baby cereal. The strawberry quick seems to sweeten it enough. So far, so good.

 

[la_marée_haute]

Hope you are able to find something else he really likes because chocolate isn't good for rats.

It has no chocolate in it... I've looked over the ingredients many times. The only unnatural ingredient that I can see is "Flavors". They'd have to mention chocolate if it had it, because chocolate = dairy, and dairy = not for vegans. And I'm one of them, lol.

But I dunno, "flavors" could be just as unhealthy as chocolate. But they reeeeeeeeeeeeally won't take anything else. :shock: And I can't use liquid strawberry quick because as I said - vegan.

Worried again...

 

[Fidget]

OMG, I'm so so sorry that you went thru that terror with such lack of support and thank goodness for starfoot!!! :cuddle:

I hope Albin is ok, I expect you lost a few months off your life over this but the last few are the crappiest anyway and better shanghai-ed, what with the cost of diapers and the distastefulness of drool in the medicinal whiskey :wink:

 

[la_marée_haute]

Thanks a lot, Fidget.

Well I don't have to worry about what is in the soy ice cream now. Albin wouldn't take it tonight (Olivier would, but I shall not give it to him on a plate again, anyway. Don't want to risk MORE wastage incase he's not in the mood for being cooperative, like Albin). He had two licks, and refused. I ended up rubbing the rest on his body, lol, because tonight I just couldn't go thru with the syringe. But tomorrow they'll be back on the syringes, because as I said, I CANNOT risk more medicine wastage. Albin is rubbing himself on the cage liners as I speak :cry:.

I knew it was too good to be true.

Yaaaay, life is peachy.

:x

 

[Fidget]

Nothing worse than having to medicate a kid and not having something you know they'll take it in - This I surely do know.
I had to try a kazillion things with Summer, and no one thing did it, I finally ended up with a mix of strawberry quick & peanut butter - you can imagine having to make that up twice a day with meds in a tiny dosage, and even then she might take forever to get thru it. On the way to finding it I had to try & toss many things (even tried & true Cool Whip) without wasting the ($80) meds.
So you can imagine the science lab I had going on my kitchen counter and I can sure commisserate with your feeling like your life has become a hell of searching out and making up meds to force into a loved one and make their life hell twice a day.

You know, when it comes to meds all consideration for healthy foods are off, and that's ok. What meds do you have to give? Have you tried peanut butter?

 

[Willow Bean]

One thing that is working for me right now if banana mash. I made up a batch and put most of it in the freezer. The little bit that I left out I added a little extra soy milk to so that I could suck it up in the syringe. I get Maverick's dosage in the syringe first then suck up about .7mls of banana mash. swish it together using the plunger on the syringe (I move the plunger in and out, keeping it IN the syringe so nothing leaks out) when it's well mixed I offer it to "her majesty Maverick" and she licks it all up while I slowly press the plunger. No problems yet and it's safe for vegans!

half a banana
a spoonful of peanut butter
soymilk to make less sticky (we use chocolate)

Mix it all up and add rats!

 

[trillium]

Hi

People may disagree with some of my choices in terms of long term health effects here, but I've experimented a lot to try to find things to disguise meds for picky eaters. I had a rat aspirate meds, and I've been paranoid about syringing since then. I avoid it unless absolutely necessary even though I know it is generally much easier and faster.

Things that have worked for me:
1) mom's pea soup - without fail, but that one's hard to come by, unless you've got mom. lol.
2) olive juice or pickle juice + meds on tiny sliver of bread - the strong smell/taste disguises baytril wonderfully, but obviously = high salt levels
-- i've occasionally also used tuna fish juice from the cans, but not consistently - anything stinky and strong!!
4) maple syrup + meds on sliver of bread - also has always worked, but I tend to use it for the less stinky doxy
(sometimes i even dab a bit of maple syrup on the olive juice on the meds on the bread just to be sure with the baytril -- they seem to like it...)
5) baby cereal or baby food - sometimes - but i think because it's bland it doesn't always disguise the taste/smell
6) all other combinations i've tried - sometimes work, sometimes not, depending on rattie sensitivity and suspicion level!

I often change things up, give one type of mix in the morning and a different mix at night, so they don't start to predict the taste/smell.

Also, with a new rattie, I tend to check and test that they like the combination alone before trying it with meds. I have one really picky eater right now who refuses certain foods -- who woulda thunk it from a "rat"!

Okay - that's all I can think of right now - hope it might be helpful.

 

[la_marée_haute]

NOTHING works. Once again, today, they spat out their meds. I held them for over an hour after I had syringed them (and that was hell... I couldn't even get the syringe to touch their mouths let alone go anywhere near in them for about TWO HOURS), and yet they STILL managed to keep the meds in their mouths and spit them ALLLLLLLLL out once bakc in the cage.

This may sound rude, but I'm just begging that please no one make any food-related suggestions anymore. I appreciate it all so much, but I have tried everything. EVERY kind of food you could think of, every kind of way to handle them while giving them a syringe of meds that you could think of. I just can't do it anymore, nor can I waste anymore medicine or precious time (their URIs get worse everyday) trying and trying and trying.

I think I'm going to HAVE to get injections for them. I just PRAY that it's NOT a lifelong thing and just for three weeks.

Please, no one flame me. This is the only way, now. Any positive support would be amazing, and also personal experiences, etc, but I don't want people teling me I should not do it. Because if I don't, their URIs will go untreated, and that's just horrible.

I'll probably organise another appointment with my vet to talk about injections/go ahead with them, in a few days.

I know you all hate the idea of injections for rats for some reaons, and because you guys do, so do I... but what AM I supposed to do? The oral meds WILL not go in them at all. They've probably had like 1 and a half doses in 7 days. It's not working. I've tried everything.

 

[lilspaz68]

The rats need their meds, thats what it boils down to. Injections are not preferable because of side effects. Make sure you take both rats with you and she shows you how on one, and you can do the other with her there. I and a few others on here have used butterfly needles for sub-q injections, but I personally have not used regular syringes.

Also remember that if you are injecting alone, that she show you how to restrain your rat if its just you doing holding and injecting. It's definitely more difficult but can be done. :cheeky:

 

[la_marée_haute]

The rats need their meds, thats what it boils down to. Injections are not preferable because of side effects. Make sure you take both rats with you and she shows you how on one, and you can do the other with her there. I and a few others on here have used butterfly needles for sub-q injections, but I personally have not used regular syringes.

Also remember that if you are injecting alone, that she show you how to restrain your rat if its just you doing holding and injecting. It's definitely more difficult but can be done. :cheeky:

Thanks so much, I'll have to keep all of that in mind. I wasn't planning on bringing them in with me, but you're right, it'd probably be way easier if she showed me how.

My mum will help me, I hope. She almost gave up on the oral syringes tonight, she just couldn't help me. Hopefully injections would be way easier for both of us.

Side effects? Eep. Anything really serious? For the injections, wouldn't they just be getting a version of what they're "having" (not) now, except not oral? Or some totally different meds? We "use" (0.1ml per day per rat) Baytril and (0.15ml per day per rat) Doxyvet, now.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[lilspaz68]

Here is the RMCA drug chart. If you look where it has the dosages you will see IM (intramuscular shot but not recommended) and SQ (subcutaneous injection under the skin, the easiest and the one your vet will teach you)

You will notice that only a few are labelled with IM or SQ dosages. The rest are oral

http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm

from ratguide...

Because enrofloxacin may cause skin ulceration at the injection site when giving SQ or IM, it is recommended to dilute the injectable solution with NaCl or LRS. 1

Make sure your vet dilutes her meds with ringers lactate or saline solution otherwise it will burn and hurt.

Once you get back from the vet and have more questions, there are some of us on here who have been through this and should be able to help you.