Healing could be killing

[Rissa]

Obtaining drugs outside of the normal supply chain from a vet or pharmacy is very tempting. Bills are tight, your vet is expensive, your rat is sick and you get stressed. It seems like a good idea at the time, lots of people do it right? Lots of forums have threads about "where do I find meds?" and lots of success stories. But do you really know what you are getting? Obtaining pills from the internet could mean gambling with your rats health or even its life. I have heard many first hand accounts of people ordering what they thought was one drug and then finding out that it was in fact another drug and these were from american companies that seemed reputable. For every person that realizes they didn't get what they paid for, how many give it to their rat trusting that they got what was advertised.

There is also the problem of expired drugs, sometimes companies re-package drugs and put their own expiration date on it. How do you know they packaged them correctly and didn't taint them in the process. How do you know the date they put on them is correct?

I wish these were the only two problems though, because drugs can be easily identified through online tools, and questionable packaging could be thrown out, but it gets far worse and scarier.

Counterfit (fake) drugs are on the rise, and they are not just going after the expensive painkillers and illegal drugs, but common drugs, like heart medication, and antibiotics. Fake drugs can contain anything. They can be complete placebos which contain no actual medication, they could contain actual medication but at a much lower dose or they could contain something TOXIC. There is no way of knowing.

"Counterfeit medicines can result in unexpected side effects, incorrect dosages, dangerous drug interactions, allergic reactions or the worsening of medical conditions. According to the World Health Organization, thousands of people around the world are injured or killed by counterfeit pharmaceuticals annually.
http://www.cisc.gc.ca/pharmaceuticals/p ... als_e.html

You might say "but I buy my medication from a canadian/american company and they are legit!" How do you know they are legit? Are they asking for a prescription? Are they verifying that you have one? Do they state the source of the medication? If they can provide a prescription medication to you without a prescription how are they able to do this? In some cases they may just be the reseller and have no idea their drugs are fake or they may simply not care.

According to the World Health Organization "In over 50% of cases, medicines purchased over the Internet from illegal sites that conceal their physical address have been found to be counterfeit."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs275/en/

I plead with anyone who obtains their drugs online to take a long hard look at where you are getting them and ask yourself "Is this worth the life of my rat?"

 

[jorats]

Thanks Digi, you are absolutely right. My vet has warned me time and time again against online vet pharmacy. She did tell me though that if they are based in Canada, chances are they are ok. My vet also works with an association that tries to shut down online vet pharmacies.

Sick animals should be seen by a vet. You need to get a prescription from your vet. You should also get your meds from a reputable vet pharmacy.

As for forums, we are here to only advise, recommend and guide in the care of your rats but we are definitely no replacement for a vet.

 

[Rissa]

Jo, for every legit online pharmacy even in Canada there are dozens of bad ones pretending to be Canadian. The biggest signs are:

1. They don't ask you for a prescription
2. Their contact information is out of country
3. They say they are selling you "generics" from a third world country to save you money and the price is far below market value.

 

[puffnstuff]

You might say "but I buy my medication from a canadian/american company and they are legit!" How do you know they are legit? Are they asking for a prescription? Are they verifying that you have one? Do they state the source of the medication? If they can provide a prescription medication to you without a prescription how are they able to do this? In some cases they may just be the reseller and have no idea their drugs are fake or they may simply not care.

Excellent point. I often wondered about some posters who say whenever their rat exhibits xxx symptoms, THEY give yyy medication, and there is also mention that they seem to just have this stuff on hand at all times.

How is this possible? If my pet needs meds, I can only get it by prescription! And then only a certain amount, for a small and specified amount of time; certainly not an indefinite supply.

So it does seem that many people have found sources online. I would never do this.

On top of everything else, how do you know WHO or WHAT you are supporting by purchasing from these sites? Are you supporting organized crime? Quite possibly.

 

[user 1946]

Something to keep in mind is that some vets will price match with online pharmacies. The vet I worked for would match any price from 1-800-PetMeds and several other popular sites and wholesale catalogs. Also, ask your vet if they have a cheaper or more generic version of a medicine, because sometimes they will stock a generic version.

In the practice, there were several cases where animals came in with seizures and severe neurological symptoms because they owner though that they could self dose. Always check with your vet... its a guarantee that staying safe is cheaper then emergency vet fees and procedures in both time and money.

 

[Alicemcmallis]

Excellent post and topic digitalangel!

If my pet needs meds, I can only get it by prescription! And then only a certain amount, for a small and specified amount of time; certainly not an indefinite supply.

I have had a number of rats and other animals on long term antibiotics or other medications such as thyroid meds or Metacam. To save me money my vet may give me a large quantity of a drug so that I don't have to keep going back and refilling a prescription every 2 weeks over the course of a year. This is likely at least part of what you're seeing.

I don't think I'd feel comfortable buying meds from anywhere but a vet/pharmacy. For example if I got an antibiotic for a suspected URI and it didn't work I'd always be wondering why it didn't work - was it actually the wrong antibiotic for that particular infection? Or was it not the antibiotic at all? Or was it not a URI and was actually something else going on with the animal?

Is there any reputable online pharmacy resource for people who have a prescription?

 

[victoria]

I have had a number of rats and other animals on long term antibiotics or other medications such as thyroid meds or Metacam. To save me money my vet may give me a large quantity of a drug so that I don't have to keep going back and refilling a prescription every 2 weeks over the course of a year. This is likely at least part of what you're seeing.

I don't think I'd feel comfortable buying meds from anywhere but a vet/pharmacy. For example if I got an antibiotic for a suspected URI and it didn't work I'd always be wondering why it didn't work - was it actually the wrong antibiotic for that particular infection? Or was it not the antibiotic at all? Or was it not a URI and was actually something else going on with the animal?

Is there any reputable online pharmacy resource for people who have a prescription?

I have a rat on long term (probably life) antibiotics, so I always have Doxi and Batryl on hand and a refill of Zithro at the pharmacy if I need it. It has come in really handy when I have had a rat come down with respiratory symptoms on a Saturday night and I don't have a vet available until Monday. It has been a blessing in disguise, as I am sure there are times when I've been able to nip pneumonia in the bud by being able to start meds right away - I have 3 rats that had a bad bout of pneumonia earlier in the year and they have weaker, more sensitive respiratory systems because of it. I think that most people with larger groups of rats are in a similar situation, as there are very few periods where there isn't someone needing meds for one thing or another.

 

[jorats]

Some of us have a very good on going relationship with our vets. My vet and I are always in contact and probably see each other at least once a week. With that, my vet gives me bigger amounts of meds but she knows who's getting it and for what. If I start a new rat on meds, I start him and bring him in when I can make the appointment. It really is worth finding a good vet, building a good strong relationship and that starts with bringing your rats in when they need it.

 

[Rissa]

I've seen self medicating backfire horribly. I knew someone who started to self medicate her rats with drugs online and then the rat got worse and she had to take it to the vet but then she had to admit to the vet that she bought her drugs over the internet and she was trying to self medicate which damaged the relationship she had begun to build with the vet.

 

[Alicemcmallis]

Also, even if you have "real" drugs, if you think your pet has one illness but really has another, you could be doing more harm than good by diagnosing and medicating at home.

People often try and hide medications they've already given to their pets from their vet when they haven't been acquired on the up and up. Or if they don't know for sure what drugs they've actually given their pet, when the animal eventually does see the vet, the vet is going into the exam lacking vital information about what drugs the animal has already been given. It can just sort of spiral downward, and end up costing more in the long run in so many ways.

 

[LA]

Some of us have a very good on going relationship with our vets. My vet and I are always in contact and probably see each other at least once a week. With that, my vet gives me bigger amounts of meds but she knows who's getting it and for what. If I start a new rat on meds, I start him and bring him in when I can make the appointment. It really is worth finding a good vet, building a good strong relationship and that starts with bringing your rats in when they need it.

Yes my vet gives me more baytril then needed just in case, which is handy in a pinch. She also had a pager where I can call her and she can answer a question for me. I haven't used it yet but I know she's there.

This is why I say it's really good to strike up an excellent friendship with your vet.

 

[LA]

Question DA, have you stopped buying meds that aren't from your vet or pharmacy?

 

[Rissa]

LA, when I learned about this and did research into just how bad it was I threw out all questionable medication in my house. I will still continue to buy revolution because I have enough information on it to feel comfortable with the company I buy it from.

 

[Cait]

Question DA, have you stopped buying meds that aren't from your vet or pharmacy?

Why would you even ask?

 

[Scythe]

I have to agree with this. There are some screwed up people out there, and you are trusting in strangers who likely are not Vets(or anything close) to help. And, when it's a life involved, it's really not worth it.

 

[LA]

DA that's what I was wondering.

Cait because back when DA just joined she had issues with bad med from online. So I was asking if she still bought.

 

[Petunia]

I get meds for myself online and have no problem with that.

while it's comforting to think that you can trust what your vet is giving you, or what you are getting from a physical (as opposed to online) pharmacy, there can be mistakes made with them, and/or you can get a bad vet/pharmacy that doesn't care where the meds come from or if you're getting the right dose.

It's not quite as simple as Rx and vet is always good, online/ no script is always bad. If only the world were that simple!

I can't even begin to tell you the number of times that the pharmacy has sent me home with the wrong meds or someone else's meds, and I've had doctors (so far, no vets *that I'm aware of*) give me the wrong dose of a medication I needed.

I don't have a whole lot of faith in the FDA nor most of the regulating agencies here in the states. All you need to do is watch the news a few nights a week to see why.
I don't know enough about the Canadian ones to say, but when you buy drugs from your local drug store, chances are quite a few of the ingredients that are going into them have come from overseas, from manufacturers that have the FDA seal of approval that shouldn't have it. Let alone the ones that don't have it at all, that still manage to sell their products to large American drug companies.

it's a dangerous world, where greed and profits take top priority over the health and well being of people and pets.
*sigh*

 

[Rissa]

Petunia, thanks for your comment. Its true, sometimes our own doctors make mistakes too. My sister has hypothyroidism and was sent home for a prescription for a hyperthyroid drug. That could have done terrible things to her. No matter what I think asking questions is important, and if you are not comfortable with the answers keep asking until you are or go elsewhere.

 

[lilangel]

I use to get my stuff online but i started to build a relationship with my vet so now if i need more baytril or what not i just give a ring. For flea meds i buy that though at a horse store as i use the horse paste but it worked out well with that and also told my vet about it and he knows i use it.

I know at on point i was looking to find a place for baytril and DA helped me loads showing me how it was not even that and such (thank gosh) So i never bought such things as baytril/cripo(sp?) i only bought so far online was doxy.

 

[Petunia]

Petunia, thanks for your comment. Its true, sometimes our own doctors make mistakes too. My sister has hypothyroidism and was sent home for a prescription for a hyperthyroid drug. That could have done terrible things to her. No matter what I think asking questions is important, and if you are not comfortable with the answers keep asking until you are or go elsewhere.

well this assumes that you even know what questions to ask, and what the correct answers are. On the one hand, you say trust your vet (doctor) and pharmacist, on the other, you say keep asking questions, as if you knew the correct answers yourself, in which case, why would you need a doctor/vet in the first place?

not trying to start a debate, just trying to point out that in the real world, this may not always work.

Also, not everyone has the luxury of going somewhere else- then what?


My girl Tilly is having surgery tomorrow, and my vet, a GOOD vet, no longer believes that that are any safe pain meds for rats. I'm not sure how she came to this conclusion but it doesn't matter, she will not give my girl pain meds for after her surgery.

There are no other exotic vets that I can get to. Ideally, I"d have several vets to choose from, but I don't.

so, what would you in this situation? not have the surgery done at all, knowing that your girl will maybe live only 3 more months, like her mom did, before the tumor gets too big?
have the surgery done and watch your girl suffer after wards in pain, when you know that there are things that would relieve that pain that you have access to?

again, I am not trying to start a debate, I just want to point out that things aren't always as simple and easy as we would like.