head pressing in a 23 mos old female

[Petunia]

I had the kids out to play last night and Evie was going around nipping at everyone, even me.
Evie will be 2yrs old Nov 22 and she has two large mammary tumors.
Otherwise she's been fine, the tumors don't get in her way at all.

All of the girls (Brenna, Smidgen and Lovey, too) wanted to be held and skritched, and Evie joined the bunch, but was continually nipping at me, my ear, my neck, my fingers, and she was nipping the butts of of the other girls

I skritched her the same as I was the others, around the sides of the face and shoulders, and down the back, but as soon as I stroked her forehead, my heart sank- she pressed back every single time, it was a very pronounced head bumping, not just one you're not really sure is there, this was baaaaaaad


what other reasons are there for this besides PT? I have not seen any other signs of PT, no knuckling of the paws, no balance problems.

In fact I am seeing PT symptoms in Brenna now.
Smidgen, the girl who is full of lumps, squeaks if anyone walks over here or if I touch a certain spot near the back end of her, I will giving her metacam as soon as the it arrives.

I can't say that I don't believe this is happening so soon after losing Teddy- I could see that I'd be facing this sooner rather than later, but dammit, did it have to be *this* soon?

only Lovey and Owen are ok.

anyway is there any other reason for head pressing? there's no sign of a stroke, she's got perfect balance, but her personality has changed, she's never been a biter.

 

[Petunia]

googling PTs and head pressing and found this hopeful statement on the rat guide:
"Head pressing/Head bumping. This sign may be present when there is increased intracranial pressure (rat may bump head up when petted, or extend head pressing against a fixed surface). *Note: this sign should not be confused with normal attention-getting behavior. It is more often seen late in the disease process,and by itself should not be the basis for diagnosis of pituitary tumor!"

She's never pressed her head or bumped her head up before to get attention, but it says this is a late sign, so.........

there's hope, right?
I would really love to have one of my kids make it to 2yrs old!
Evie's mom Paige died young, she was just a few months over a year old.

 

[temblabamomo]

I am sorry your little ones are giving you so much worry lately. :hugs: Any chance you can get a video of the head pressing? Others here who have more experience with PT may be able to give an opinion. Has she always nipped at the others? If it is PT, I hope it is slow growing. But I hope and have fingers crossed that maybe it's not.

 

[Petunia]

thanks Morgan, well I petted her on her forehead a couple of times thru out the day and she did not press back against my hand, so I'm hopeful....
She has never been a nippy, at least not with me. Or maybe I have her confused with her mom? sad to say I do get my PEWS confused sometimes.
She'll be starting on metacam for the tumors as soon as it gets here, (due tomorrow) so if she's in any pain that should help.
She's eating just fine, and seems ok in every other respect.
It was so odd last night that everyone except Owen wanted to snuggle up with me, they were quite frantic about it, almost. They are taking the loss of their former Alpha rat pretty hard I think.
They ran around in the rat room like they had not been able to do before, because Teddy would have stopped them. I think they were a little bit scared by all that new freedom, maybe? is that something that can happen with rats? and in his absence, they came to me for reassurance, or so it seemed.

I don't really know who is alpha now, it seemed like Owen and Lovey were both vying for that spot, but it's still not clear to me who is the top rat.

I'll be keeping a close eye on her, of course. I've never seen a rat head press for attention, so that really freaked me out; I didn't know it was something rats do.
I had a cat who would do it all the time, but never a rat. Til now, anyway lol

 

[temblabamomo]

Sometimes just keeping an eye on them is all you can do. I have so little experience with PT. I wouldn't know either. we'll just have to keep fingers crossed she is only reaching outbfor her mama's attention.

 

[yoland]

We have had Sophie on cabergoline from diamondback pharmacy AZ for almost 9 weeks now.
She is doing pretty good, we have upped the dose twice now as per human protocol
So she is on about o.3 mg/kg Sid now .

Please do try and start this treatment, we have an almost 3 yr old that has had over ten tumors including adrenal and yet she is still having good quality of life, I have to adjust her food and her her groom herself well on some days , but really she is okay , getting around the double CN with some adjustments ect

We are paying about $30 month to treat her, that includes her low dose pred and Baytril
Her food is the most expensive and I am staying close to home to keep an eye out to. Help if she needs it, but so grateful for these extra months.

They will ship to Canada and overnight to US
See my past posts,

Sophie started he head butt months before the other symptoms started so I would say she has had the PT for at least 5 months

Best wishes praying or you.

Yoland

 

[yoland]

bTW. CaBergoline has a very low side effect profile and can be given safely at extreme doses I have all the papers on it.

Even pregnant women can take it.
In some articles I have seen it recommended as a precautionary treatment in any rat above 20 mo this that has had more than one mammary tumor, the current thought is most unspayed females w/ multiple tumors , the PT is to blame.

I have a few hundred pages of lit on this

 

[Fidget]

Hon, awful as it sounds and feels at first, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if Evie had a pituitary tumor.
The other option is for her mammary tumors to grow so large they restrict her movement or affect her appetite (making her desperately hungry but nothing satisfies it). I've seen all 3 happen, and believe me, helping a kid thru a pitutiary tumor is not near as bad as seeing one become incapacitated or tortured when they're in their right mind the whole time with something you could help if you had the money..
Tumors are the bane of ratty-lovers. Some of us can afford to have them taken off, some of us can't. There is a lot of guilt when we can'f fix something for them. But pituitary you can't fix, just get to do your best care. It's gentler for you and them sometimes.