Hard knot/something inside Baileys stomache area ??

[September555]

Ok I found something on Baileys stomach last night, and it is really worrying me. (Shes my older gal that already has the huge knot under her armpit) Last night when I got her out I noticed she had a very very hard knot or something in her stomach area...not quite between the back legs, whatever it is, it feels very hard and very large. It also came on very very fast...its not hanging out like the tumor on her arm pit, seems more inside her body...if that make sense. Lately she has been wetting herself etc....and when I get her out nightly, I normally take a warm washcloth and wipe her down really well and help her bathe. I washed her down on Monday and didn't notice it at all....unless it was small, but I rub that area pretty well because that is the most soiled part of her. Tuesday night I didn’t have to wipe her down, she wasn’t soiled, but I didn’t notice it when I got her out. Wednesday night, I didn’t get her out that night, I had got called into work early and so last night when I got her out is when I did notice it as I was wiping her down. I kind of thought maybe she was impacted? Do rats get impacted where they can not urinate or defecate? She has been pooping, seems to be eating fine (I supplement her with ensure and baby cereal), she has been lively, wants out of the cage, runs around, still very active, no behavior change the last couple days. I didn’t notice if any urination or not, of course the bottom of her cage is lined with material, and if she has urinated it dried on the other platforms. Tonight she was just laying on a platform in her cage, she moved up one to come say hi to me and there was a dime size puddle of urine. The spot also seems maybe lumpy inside her. She doesn’t seem to fidget if I press on it, then again I didn’t really mess with pushin on it to much, I was afraid to hurt her.

Does anyone know what this is? I am going to call the vet this morning. They open at 8 and see how soon she can get me in.....she isnt a rat expert or anything. She knows enough to get by, maybe a little more than that, she has surprised me a time or two. I always like to come here for advice first since I am leery of this vet, so I always come here first and ask the experts. =)

Paula

 

[xxchelle]

It could be a deep abscess, or it could be a tumor... My boy Alt had a large internal tumor that grew so fast... they're so deep that we don't feel them until they're already large.

 

[September555]

So I am assuming that if it is an internal tumor that grew that fast and is that large/hard....my only option would be the dreaded pts? She will be three in August. No way could she handle surgery given her age and she already has severe respiratory issues as it is. I DONT want that route, but also dont want her to suffer, I always ask here, how do I know that is the right decision? If she is livenly and has spunk still left in her...no "sickly" signs...how fast can that turn for the worse with a tumor like that if that is what it is. :sad3:

 

[lilspaz68]

inguinal tumors are another mammary type tumor, that are a bit more invasive than arm pit mammary tumors, but usually don't go deep into the abdomen. Your vet should be able to find it if its a tumor deep into the abdomen and feel if its pushing or attached to any major internal organs. If its just a regular inguinal, she can live with it until the light goes out of her eyes.

 

[September555]

Thnks for the info so far.......I am glad to know that if it isn't attached she can hang in there until it's "time". I was just thinkin (oh no watch out....that happens rarely), this thing in her abom. is really really hard. Tumars can get that hard? I guess I just always thuoght they were squishy?

 

[jorats]

Some of them can be hard... but it perhaps it's an abscess?

 

[September555]

What can and would they typically do for an absess, and with her age and resp/breathing health.....do I let her try that (if they do anything) if she suggests it??

 

[September555]

and do you normally see absess? Like they make the skin clear/thin something? kinda of like a persons and a boil or zit? (except not raised just can see thru the skin kinda?) Or can they be deep rooted with normal furry skin over them? I guess I think of absesses as something bursty looking or leaking.

 

[September555]

Ok...well vet got me in right away....she said she was pretty sure it was a tumor and it seemed in her bladder area. I explained it all and when I mentioned I hadnt seen alot of urine and the way shes been wetting herself lately she said that would make sense if it was in the bladder area. She said we could do some xrays to make sure she wasnt constipated, but I told her she had been pooping so we ruled that out. I asked her if it felt attached or detached she said hard to tell inside like that....but her guess was it was either inside the bladder, or close to it and maybe pressing against it. She poked and pressed alot and Bailey did not seem to mind, she actually BOGGLED when she was doing this...something I have only seen Bay do 2-3 times.

I asked the vet if there was anything besides surgery she said not for something like that......she said it sounds like it is aggressive. She said since her actions are as close to normal as they had been to just keep an eye on her and see how she does. She said when it came time to make that "decision" she would be happy to walk me through it if I wanted to talk to her first and make sure it's right.

She mentioned Lily (the one she operated on and Lil didnt make it) She actually started to cry a bit over it...said she had a hard time for 3-4 days after it. She said she had never really looked at rats any way except just an animal that some have as a pet or dirty sewer creatures...that she had seen rats before in her office a time or two and studie about them in vet school....but never met and played with any rats with personalities like mine...and she completely sees lil rats in a totally different light. It's amazing what our lil fur friends can do to people huh?

K...back to Bay...so now I will just watch and see how she does for the next few days. I did ask her for Doxy just to give Bay for her respiratory and maybe the tumor?? Who knows. Doxy is called Doxycycline, right? The pills she had was 100mg and had to be cut to small so she wrote me a script for oral.....so 2 questions.....

Script says....

suspension 5mg/ml, give 0.15 ml orally every 12 hours. May mix with non dairy food.
1....is that the rite dosage? Bailey is small and frail. She weighed 1 last time at vet...month ago
2. what can I mix it with besides yogurt?
3. Can I give it to her along with Baytril? Or is it one or the other??

Ok so thats three questions sorry!

Thanks
Paula

 

[mamarat]

Sorry I can't help with the dosage but yes you give both meds waiting about a half hour between the two according to my vet. Hope your girl feels better soon.

 

[September555]

Thanks. Well....aparently no one around here carries Doxy, pharmasist or vets! I have been and called to 16 different places and no one has it liquid form, only pill form and the smallest pill form is 20mg. She needs like .7mg. Sooo...I had to special order it from CVS pharmacy and it wont be in until Monday. The vet didn tell me to give it to her, I just asked in hopes it may help with Baileys breathing some. So it can wait until then...just can not beleive it is so hard to find. It is mentioned alot here on the forum...where does everyone else get thiers???

 

[jujubeespmud]

Hi Paula, I was reading this thread because I too have a boy rat with a tumor, but his is wrapped around his hind leg and inside of the groin area between the leg and boy parts. His tumor is very hard and the news I got was not good for Lucky. You can read my thread if you like. However, the doxy I get is from my vet. You can give doxy and baytril at the same time. If you have to use the pills, I'd get a mortar & pestle to grind it up as much as possible. You can mix the doxy with something that tastes yummy, like maybe some strawberry flavored mix...the kind you put in milk. But you will need to find out the amounts of syrup and doxy to mix by a pharmacist that can mix meds for animals. Or perhaps the pharmacist has something he can mix in the doxy for you? That's odd that no one can mix this in liquid form for you. It sounds like you will be in the same position I am and that is when to know it's time to let them go. You will know. I'll keep you in my thoughts and in the mean time, spoil your Bailey with whatever she likes to eat and give her lots of love.
Julie

 

[September555]

Thanks Julie.....aparently they dont make the ...er dispense the liquid form of it. Most the pharmasist does have the pill form but smallest was 20 mg, and she needs like .7. So I figured just get it monday and start it then, didnt think of strawberry mix, thats a good idea. Maybe even baby cereal. I hate tumors. :redhot: I will keep you in my thoughts as well

P.

 

[jorats]

Paula, some pharmacies carry it in capsule form which is much easier to mix with water. I believe they are 100mg.
If not, I probably wouldn't worry about adding the doxy at this stage. She's quite old, she has a tumour... you can just maintain her with the Baytril and lots and lots of loving.
Your vet sounds wonderful... with an open mind.

 

[September555]

Thanks Jo. The doxy wont be in until monday...I have not paid for it or anything yet....they said if they get it in and she passes befroe then for some reason or I change my mind I was not obligated to purchase it they could just send it back. The vet did give me a dispension for it...said to get the .7 grams I would give or mix with water or something 1.5ml from the bottle. If you think at this point it wouldnt change anything then I will just call and tell them to cancel it out and not even worry with it. I just asked for it in hopes it may help...but she does have the very large ne under her arm pit...and the one in her stomach which increased very rapidly...so not sure if anythng will help at this point and like you said she is an old gal. So think I definately should just leave it out? Shes been doing ok so far. Still running around and do what shes been doing. Shes eating alot of oatmeal baby cereal right now, she loves it.

Thanks all
Paula

 

[mamarat]

I'm glad she's still enjoying her time with you.

 

[jorats]

I personally wouldn't try to give it to her. Some rats really don't like meds and it just stresses them. If it would make a big difference then I'd say yes, force it but at this point, I'd have my girl live out her days happy and stress free.

 

[September555]

Thanks Jo....will do that. I still give her the baytril with yogurt which she LOVES and takes it like Candy.

I am concerned with the tumor pressing against her bladder and blocking it.....I have seen some signs of pee here and there, not puddles but seems it still works. My concern is how much bigger it will get and its so hard to tell if and when she does pee..it either dries before I see it or its in the cloth at the bottom and cant detect it. I would assume I wuold see signs of distress or sickliness if she was not able to go due to the tumor, right?

 

[mamarat]

She would show signs of illness or pain, not eating, not moving too much. Fingers crossed for your sweetie.

 

[jorats]

Like mamarat has said, you need to look for pain. You will know when she's hurting. She will be very pouffy, she will "zone out" and stay quite still, she'll stop eating... But if she's eating well and coming out, then she's doing good.