Had to separate my rats. what else can I do?

[The Misery Wolf]

I adopted 2 male rats together from a friend of a friend, Blizzard and Frostbite. They got 2 female feeder rats (wanting to save them from their horrible conditions) and a few weeks later one gave birth then the next week the other gave birth. I have a rat from each litter but I was told one of the litters was more aggressive and larger in size (A month or so after I had them already). After I took them home they always fought. I have recently separated them because my little guy(Blizzard) was hurt by the bigger guy(Frostbite. Also Frostbite is not only aggressive to his ex cage mate but also to me. I've had them for 2 months and I worked with the Frostbite everyday but it seems the more attention I give him the more he wants to murder me. I don't want to have to get rid of him but he scares me a little. He used to be upset when I took him out of the cage but after a while he started really trying to attack me. So I'd leave the cage open and talk to him try to pet him(but he always runs away or tries to bite me). I tried giving him treats when he came near me. I tried picking him up in the bath tub so it would be easier and also treats there. No matter what I do it is always the same so I can say for certain it is not just a cage thing. He seems ok being held for a short period of time but after 10 minutes he tries to bite me.

I only got 2 rats because they were supposed to be together but if they can't live together there is no sense having 2, especially not one who scares me. Every thing I have read about this situation says to get the "bad" one neutered but I have called a number of places in my area and they all want $200-$400 which I can't afford.

The smaller rat is a little hyper and always pestered the bigger one. I don't know if either of them were willing to not be the top rat, so that might be part of their problem. But when Blizzard was sleeping or just sitting in a corner or climbing the cage Frostbite would just randomly start biting him. When he climbed the cage Frostbite would bite him and pull him down and start fighting with him. The same thing with my hand. If it was near Frostbite when I wasn't paying attention he slowly goes to bite it. Every time he does that I pull my hand away and squeak.

I would like at least Blizzard not to have to be alone so I was thinking about getting a 3rd rat to be Blizzard's cagemate. But I'm still not sure if I should keep Frostbite or not but I don't really have anyone who wants to take an unfriendly rat.

 

[victoria]

Do you still have intact females in the house? How old are Frostbite and Blizzard? What type of cage are they in? What size is it? Is either rat showing signs of illness or parasites?

 

[SQ]

How old is each of the boys?
How long have they been together?
Any scratches around the head and shoulders?
What are the cage dimensions? Any pictures?
What are you feeding and how often"

What exactly do you mean by attack?
Is there blood?
If one is attacking the other, which part of the body is attacked?
Can you post a video?

 

[The Misery Wolf]

Do you still have intact females in the house?
No I never had intact females in my house. I never had any rats in my house except these 2.

How old are Frostbite and Blizzard?
I believe they were born in September, so 4 months old? They have been doing it since I brought them home.

What type of cage are they in?
A rat mansion. I think 4 rats could comfortably fit in it.

What size is it?
Its pretty large, 3 floors. I turned it into 2 cages when I had to separate them.

Is either rat showing signs of illness or parasites?
I don't know what those signs would be.

How long have they been together?
Since they were born.

Any scratches around the head and shoulders?
Sometimes their head/neck area fur would be pinkish and I could wipe it off but up until a few days ago I never saw a wound on either of them.

What are the cage dimensions? Any pictures?
37 inches/94 cm tall by 30 in/76 cm long by 18.5 in/ 47 cm wide

What are you feeding and how often"
Food blocks and vegetables twice a week. They always have the food blocks.

What exactly do you mean by attack?
Boxing, squeaking noises, biting

Is there blood?
Possibly? See Above. There was blood for sure on the would that was on Blizzard a few days ago it was under his arm between a half inch and an inch.

If one is attacking the other, which part of the body is attacked?
They weren't really "attacking" but Frostbite would bite Blizzard anywhere he could reach.

Can you post a video?
No I never took a video and now that they have been apart for a few days I cannot just put them back together.

 

[The Misery Wolf]

Also most of the time one of them was pinned by the other but it changed who was on top often. The smaller one(Blizzard) squeaked more when he was pinned down and he also would clean Frostbite when he had him pinned down.

 

[hopefloats]

You dont have to rehome him, a neuter generally fixes that problem.

What part of the US are you located in?

 

[The Misery Wolf]

I live in Connecticut. But as I said in my original post all the places I called about neutering rats said it was between $200 and $400..and if that is the case I cannot afford to do that.

 

[Nekopan]

This doesn't sound like aggression at all. It sounds like normal adolescent male behaviour.

Just put them back together. Scratches are normal. If you see wounds on the stomach or to the genitals, that's when you should be concerned.

Edit: Check out this thread, it has some great pictures of rats playfighting. viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28714

 

[The Misery Wolf]

This doesn't sound like aggression at all. It sounds like normal adolescent male behaviour.

Just put them back together. Scratches are normal. If you see wounds on the stomach or to the genitals, that's when you should be concerned.

Edit: Check out this thread, it has some great pictures of rats playfighting. viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28714

Ok so a almost 1 inch wound is not a reason to separate them? It was under his arm near his chest. And maybe I'm bad at describing this properly but another person who I had over saw the rats fighting and said how weird it was since they have always known each other. I thought maybe they were play fighting but she said they weren't. I looked at videos of play fighting, I've been doing research for this since I got them and it is not just play fighting. My friend is the one who wanted me to post in this place because she said you all gave great advise. Anyway I tried to put them near each other today and they started fighting and I couldn't get them apart I had to almost smack one of the rats away from the other and they still kept trying to attack each other. Maybe you could describe what you think fighting is.

 

[victoria]

Does the wound you're talking about look anything like the wound in the spoiler in the first post of this thread? viewtopic.php?f=20&t=28348

If so, that's not a serious injury, even though it looks terrifying. I agree with Nekopan, at this point, it sounds like they are just being rough boys. If you find that there are deep puncture bite wounds or wounds to the abdomen or genitals, then you need a neuter.

You may want to make a post looking for vet suggestions. I know there are a few members in the area and they may be able to direct to a good vet that does neuters cheaper. In the meantime, you may want to save in case you do need a neuter when these boys hit their hormonal peak in 3-4 months or in case they get sick.

 

[The Misery Wolf]

I guess it might have look something like that but on his chest. I don't think its safe to just put them back together..it has been almost a week since they have been apart and I tried today and they both tried to attack me when I tried to get them apart, even the one who never tries. It was really scary. Also they were making all sorts of weird noises not even squeaking.

EDIT: I gave them both a bath and put vanilla extract on them because I heard that helped then put them together.

 

[victoria]

If they've been apart a week you may have to reintroduce them. There is a thread in the Behaviour subforum with a lot of information on how to do introductions, Jorats has even taped some of her intros and put them up on Youtube. I still think you should make a post looking for a vet and see if someone in your area can suggest someone cheaper.

 

[jorats]

You definitely need to do proper intros now.
One of the rats is aggressive, because he's lunging and trying to bite you. You could work at rehabilitating him. It will take time and patience... but in the mean time, if you can save up for a neuter, that would benefit him tremendously. The fighting at the young age was play fighting. nothing more, but when it escalates to a big gash, it was probably an accident but couple that with him biting you, he needs help.
Is the cage a coast cage rat mansion? If so, that's much too small for 2 rats.

 

[The Misery Wolf]

You definitely need to do proper intros now.
One of the rats is aggressive, because he's lunging and trying to bite you. You could work at rehabilitating him. It will take time and patience... but in the mean time, if you can save up for a neuter, that would benefit him tremendously. The fighting at the young age was play fighting. nothing more, but when it escalates to a big gash, it was probably an accident but couple that with him biting you, he needs help.
Is the cage a coast cage rat mansion? If so, that's much too small for 2 rats.

I think its actually a ferret mansion. I'll post the size again: 37 inches/94 cm tall by 30 in/76 cm long by 18.5 in/ 47 cm wide

 

[jorats]

You definitely need to do proper intros now.
One of the rats is aggressive, because he's lunging and trying to bite you. You could work at rehabilitating him. It will take time and patience... but in the mean time, if you can save up for a neuter, that would benefit him tremendously. The fighting at the young age was play fighting. nothing more, but when it escalates to a big gash, it was probably an accident but couple that with him biting you, he needs help.
Is the cage a coast cage rat mansion? If so, that's much too small for 2 rats.

I think its actually a ferret mansion. I'll post the size again: 37 inches/94 cm tall by 30 in/76 cm long by 18.5 in/ 47 cm wide

Ok, so the cage is not an issue.