Flea Bath spars Aggressive Attack

[EDK]

So today I had to treat my boys with a flea shampoo bath, kitten shampoo as told by my vet cause I found a flea on my alpha rat Gizmo. He was the first to get the bath and wasn't too happy about it. I put him back in the cage after I dried him to my best, and left to start up another fresh bath. I come back, and Gyro is hugely puffy and aggressive, hissing. I look in the cage and there's blood! Gizmo was hit three times, on his legs and under his belly. From what I could tell he wasn't hissing, he was upset to be sure and he was holding a defensive stare stance on Nes, who was also extremely puffy and hissing as well! So I've immediatly seperated Gizmo from the main cage till he settles down. Gyro continues to hiss as well as Nes. I don't understand it to be honest, these guys never were horribly aggressive to each other before, they rough played alot yes, but never caused blood, till now. I am not sure what to make of this change, other then Gizmo was very scared from the bath (Had to do it though) and he might have stirred up aggression with the others. Far as I can tell Gyro and Nes have no wounds on them, it's only Gizmo. So i'm very concerned and a bit nervous about reintroducing him back into the main cage, at least not till the others settle down.

I'm not going to give Gyro or Nes the bath just yet, as I've yet to see fleas on them, and to be honest wtih them being poofy right now, I dont want to risk injury to myself as well.

Advice or assistance is appreciated

 

[jorats]

What's the name of the flea shampoo? Some pesticides can have neurological consequences. I wonder if this might be it. Or... perhaps he got so scared and stressed from the bath that he lunged and attack anything that was near him.

 

[EDK]

Its called Sergeant's Gold: Flea & Tick Shampoo, instructions were to lather and let it set for 5mins then rinse, once, every 30 days

I currently put Gizmo in a safety cage and put him back into the CN to confirm who's the aggressor and see if everyone will settle down, so far no one has, Gyro is the most aggressive. His hissing at Gizmo, lunging at his cage, and making Nes very stressed and causing him to be puffy too... I have no idea what to do here.

Edit: It's been a few minutes and the hissing has stopped and the lunging, though Gyro is still a little poofy, not as much anymore, Nes has calmed, Gizmo was never puffy from the start, just seemed confused at what is happening.

 

[lilspaz68]

You took boys that were relatively comfortable with each other but still a bit tense, washed Giz and completely changed his smell...you basically put a total Stranger rat back in their cage and Gyro defended and is upset at the invasion of his territory.

I don't like flea baths when Revolution will work better. Rat fleas are NOT common at all.

I would let Gyro calm down, take some dirty bedding and try to rub the smell on Gizmo...let Giz pee on you and wipe it on his coat, anything to make him more of their old cagemate. Do re-intro's in a neutral place.

 

[SQ]

:yeah:

Fleas shampoos (etc) are not used on rats.
You will want to treat them with cat or kitten revolution
... the amount placed on the back of their necks is very tiny and is based on each rats weight.

 

[victoria]

I don't like flea baths when Revolution will work better. Rat fleas are NOT common at all.

That, and if one rat in the cage has parasites, they all need to be treated or they will just keep on passing it back and forth.

 

[EDK]

The shampoo was an immediate solution for me at the time, our dogs are infested with fleas and we've been fighting them for a week, seems we're gonna have to bomb the house as well, it wasn't till this mornign i realized Gizmo had ONE flea on him and i didn't want to take chances.

However on the brighter side, crises appears to be adverted. I did has Peggy said, did about of hour intro in the netural zone, rubbed Gizmo in some old fabric everyone has scented on, and put him in the safe cage next to the CN. Everyone seems to have calmed down and accepted him back into the group. Gyro who previously attacked him even allowed him to groom him, there's been no lunging or hissing, but I'm still keeping an eye on them.

One things for sure I am never doing that again, was stressful for everyone. Thanks everyone for all your advice, this is a rattie lesson I will never forget.

 

[MiniFrog]

wow, talk about a learning experience! I had fleas last year that I still have scars from (because bug bites are really bad on me lol, I wake myself up scratching and keep my nails short, so picture that), right after my fat cat died.....something I never want to go through again, so this year as soon as we saw one, we started treating the dog, cat, furniture, i haven't seen any on the rats though, but now I know what not to do lol. Glad that they are calming down though, and sorry you went through that =/

 

[EDK]

Dunno who had it rough, me or gizmo or Gyro lol. Gizmo was hurt for sure, but he didn't seem mad, more like confused, he didn't understand why Gyro was stressed out, he never fought, he just defended himself, and would try to groom Gyro when he was stressed, but Gryo was scared and as Peggy said, saw nothing but a new rat in his turf. So after taking everyones advice, Gyro gradually and speedily, realized who he had attacked and he too looked surprised afterwards lol! After that he was being submissive to Gizmo, letting him groom his back, and he groomed him, no more puffying, they cuddled up a few times, so phew...wow, I think I got lucky there.

 

[hopefloats]

Is this the same one that bit that baby?

 

[EDK]

If you mean the one who fought Data, who sadly passed away from that fight, then ya. Data was a year old though he wasn't a baby. Gyro never hurt the youngest of my group.

The fight between him and Data was sparked by Data however, Data lunged at Gyro, Gyro fought back, and Data had a compromised system to which I didn't know, and when i rushed him to the vet emergency, there was nothing they could do, his lung was punctured. So that was a sad day for everyone, this is also why I dont intro new rats into my 3 boy group anymore either. And obviously after what happened today, no one is getting a flea bath, just flea repelent ointment as suggested.

Sure neutering would probably help the situation or prevent it from ever happening, but here's the thing (and sorry if I'm repeating):

The last of my group to see my vet to get neutered, Dax, died. It went horribly wrong, they still don't understand how they could have screwed it up, but they did, and it cost me $185, to which they put on a tab as credit for when I see them. I don't care if they gave me the money back and did cover the extra surgeries they did to try and save him, he's still dead. I'm not about to risk another one at the moment...Sorry I'm very upset about the loss still, been trying to get over it, but its difficult, and I find it very hard to trust any vet, skilled in rats or not, to trust anyone at the moment with neutering my boys. If i lived up where you were Peggy, I'd defiently take up on the chance to neuter them just to prevent any possible chances of aggression because the record of neuters that been done on your end are more successful in percentage then losses (In otherwords I'd trust your facilities/vets more). But sadly I live in Texas, and I lost 3 boys, within 6months, one from phenomina, one from a fight, and another from a neuter already, I have good reasons for not wanting to chance it right now.

Sorry, if ya'll may not agree and think I should chance it for the good of the others. But the way I see it is, if I do chance it, and spend more then 400$ to neuter all my boys, and possibly lose them too, is just not worth it. Gizmo and Gyro have been getting along now since everyones calmed, I'll continue to keep an eye on them, and will never flea shampoo them again. Hope everyone understands why I dont neuter though, or judges me on the fact. If theres a way they can get along now without it, then I'll take that opprotunity.

 

[hopefloats]

well again, it looks like he is the problem because he has caused blood before and now again. Dax was a freak accident but he wont ever be totally happy as long as he isnt neutered. You cannot let that hold you back, find a new vet that has neutered but if you get anymore, then the biting and fighting will continue. If you are going to be adamant about not neutering then make sure no more males come in because there is a high chance of them being mean boys. Girls are just as big of a risk because with out spays they get tumors and can bleed.

 

[crumbilina]

I understand your point about the vet. I think all of us do, but at the same time, when you have someone who is unstable, everyone becomes unstable. Look at humans. If you have one unstable aggressive person in a group of people living together everyone becomes tense and stressed and nasty things can happen. The stress this can cause will also effect their health (once again, look at people who live in stressful situations and deal with stress on a daily basis).

Before completely ruling out a neuter, take a look around at different vets in your area. See if you can find someone with a good track record, someone who knows rats. Once again, I am very sympathetic with your position, but I hope that you will reconsider a neuter. It sounds like he might become more of a problem.

ETA: I'm not aware of the entire situation, but this is my opinion on what I have read in this thread. The fact that there have been 2 instances in which blood was shed indicates that there likely is a problem (at least this is what it means to me).

 

[victoria]

You can also ask your vet about chemical neuters... there are a few non-surgical options that are available at some vets now. They're not permanent (Lupron lasts 4-5 weeks at a time, Deslorelin can last a year or more) but they achieve the same result.

 

[EDK]

Well theres' been no incident since this last attack, everyone went back to normal and are playing like usual. You guys are right I do admit, but I'm choosing to wait to see if this can still work. If another fight with blood breaks out again then...I have no choice it seems. It's that or I seperate them, like I said, if I neuter all of them here, its going to cost me over 400$, money is tight for me at the moment. It can be done yes, but if theres a chance they can get along then I'm gonna wait. Going for a strike 3 thing, Gyro has 2 strikes, one more and they are all out for neuters...But if I lose one more of my boys now...then I'm gonna lose it too.

On an odder note, Gizmo is my alpha rat, and in all the time I've had him, he's never, and i mean NEVER puffed up. Gyro and Nes certaintly had puffy moments during that one intro with Data, but in all my time with Gizmo he's never puffed. I wonder why?

 

[crumbilina]

It's that or I seperate them, like I said, if I neuter all of them here, its going to cost me over 400$, money is tight for me at the moment. I

Keep in mind too, you don't have to neuter all, just the ones that cause problems.