fight amongst my oldies? should I be concerned?

[sketchi]

I have Milky in my shirt right now, licking his wounded toe. I heard a loud thump coming from the CN and when I went over to investigate, you can imagine my shock when I found streaks of blood on Milky's belly and tail! luckily it seems only one of his toenails fell off, and I'm hoping it's only from an accidental tumble during a regular scuffle. however even this morning I heard louder complaining shrieks than usual, and when I went to check in on them Milky and Strider were boxing in their favorite hammock.

I was hoping to intro the new babies soon (when they hit 8 weeks, which will be this sunday!), but I don't want to intro now if my original crew aren't getting along! what should I do??



also the new babies are beginning to scent-mark, which is making me consider neutering them. but I've read neuters don't really hold much health benefits, and I wouldn't want to put them under the dangers of anesthetic just for my own purposes. thoughts, advice?

 

[jorats]

Are the babies near the oldies? If so, that's probably what got them wired up. But that shouldn't stop you from doing intros when the time comes. The babies shouldn't be marking, not until they are at the very least 3 months old.
You are in Toronto so you have access to Dr. Munn, I'd say get them neutered. There is definitely health benefits like reduced risk of PT as well as taking away all hormonal stress, leaving them as happy bouncy puppies.

 

[Moon]

If you're financially able to neuter, it's always a nice route to go. Much less hormonal or manly stress, and less in-cage issues (like what you're dealing with right now!) The benefits are still numerous health wise too... less penis plugs typically, less chance of prostate issues or infection, and no chance of testicular cancer! LOL I wouldn't say that scent marking is a good reason to neuter though, and certainly isn't a guarantee of any sort that it'll stop the marking.

As for the worries about anesthetic, you have access to one of the best exotic vets in Ontario! So I wouldn't let that be a reason to not neuter them.

As with us, rats have good days/weeks and bad days/weeks... give your resident boys some slack as it could be something as simple as that. But you know your boys best... if they're acting angsty on Sunday still, I'd hold off on intros just yet.

 

[Moon]

reduced risk of PT

Do we have actual evidence of this? Why would lack of hormones effect the brain in that way?

 

[jorats]

Oops, sorry, I should have been more clear, according to Dr. Munn's observations, he wrote this in an email to Shelagh.

reduced risk of PT

Do we have actual evidence of this? Why would lack of hormones effect the brain in that way?

 

[sketchi]

yes, the babies have been near the oldies from the moment they came home. I have their cage right on top of the CN (over a blanket so no tails get accidentally nipped!). the oldies were fine with that for ages, until today? I'm going to put Milky back now and see if the fight escalates or if it was just a one-off. I'll give them both some extra food so they'll be in better moods for now, haha.

and if it isn't marking I can't imagine what else it is! they pee on me in little drops, and only when they walk over me. possibly I've been unlucky enough to always take them out just as their bladder is about full, so I'll take them out a few more times and confirm. if I were to get them neutered, when would be the optimal age? I can't say I've noticed a huge behaviour change in my neutered vs unneutered rats (other than the scent-marking). Milky (neutered for being jumpy) is still jumpier than Strider, who's intact. and Strider doesn't scent mark anymore since he's passed his first birthday, and his balls have shrunk so they're barely noticeable. perhaps I don't have the best examples to compare though, since Milky used to be a breeder for snake-food, and Strider's been a socialized stable alpha.

I will definitely give neutering some serious thought. poor babies' wee balls are now on the line. :giggle:

 

[jorats]

I'd let the oldies work it out especially since they are to be introed to the babies anyway.
Small drops is indeed marking but probably not in a dominating way for them, more in a way to remind them where the safe zone is.

 

[Moon]

Oops, sorry, I should have been more clear, according to Dr. Munn's observations, he wrote this in an email to Shelagh.

reduced risk of PT

Do we have actual evidence of this? Why would lack of hormones effect the brain in that way?

Ah okay, I know it's something that's been discussed but thought it was still anecdotal.

Jo makes a good point, rats use urine for a lot more than just marking territory, including finding their way and identifying safe zones. And to show us their love LOL :giggle:

 

[SQ]

Didn't know neutering affected pt rates.
Knew that spaying decreases chances of pt.