EDIT:All better now! Rat turned Antisocial?

[Curiousratlover]

Well over the past 5 years I've owned 10 rats total, I got down to the last 2, and my hairless rat died. So that left my greedy boy patches left. All my rats were friendly, loving to eachother and me and the family. Even though patches was old I didn't want him to be lonely so I made the decision to get 2 new rat pups which I got. Tiny cute babies.

But patches...he showed zero interest. No aggression, didn't even care to sniff them like normal. In fact hes avoiding them so much he gets into a hammock to escape, something hes never ever liked or used at all. The babies aren't aggressive at all, probably 1/10th his size and just view him as this massive climbing toy and bedmate. I just don't know why patches is so unhappy, he seems generally depressed, he kinda comes to the cage bars and begs to be removed to be away from them even though the pair of brothers have done nothing to him. They are too busy enjoying fruit and chewing everything. I mean I've seen aggression and dominance and even fear in rattie introductions but this is weird, hes apathetic/avoidant. Beginning to wonder if I should give the babies back? I've never seen him so unhappy.

He allows them to sleep beside and things like that but in general pretends they don't exist. (Unless they have a yummy piece of food, hes quite a greedy boy)

Any ideas what I should do or what is wrong? Hes been alone for 2 months while I searched for non-petstore, healthy babies for him.

Also, yes the thought that he might be reaching his end thus slowing down occured to me but I don't think this is the case due to the fact I take him out and he plays with the cats happily, and runs around curious, its just the babies that make him shut down.

 

[VacantEyes]

How long has he been living with the new additions? I've had the same problem with one of my boys who was separated from everyone due to an operation and following infection... he just seems overwhelmed by the babies I introduced to him and he tries to just sit alone and ignore them. If it hasn't been long, maybe he just needs time to warm up to them.

I can't offer much in the way of advice, and I'm sure you'll have lots of responses from the more experienced here... but I'm wondering if you could try positive association? As in... every time he goes near one of them, or interacts (in a good way), give him a treat. You said he's food motivated, so I wonder whether treating him in the presence of the babies might make him associate them with good things? Good luck with him though, hopefully both of our boys get over this!

 

[lilspaz68]

How old is Patches? Does he have any health issues? How long has he lived with the baby boys and how old are they as well?

 

[Curiousratlover]

Patches is about 2 and half years old. No health problems besides being fat. The babies are exactly a month and a couple days old, been waiting for them since they were 11 days. It has only been a day, so perhaps I am jumping the gun sorry, but he certainly has never acted like this at all. Hes back to having his ferret nation to himself again and I let them in to play with him for about an hour or so at a time. Its just the instant listlessness is so odd. I might try the treat association but patches seriously does not need anymore food xD my family has spoiled him badly to the point he takes down his food bowl from the holder, knocks his blocks out the cage one by one and drags the bowl around the cage noisily until he gets treats.

I'll give it some time.

 

[lilspaz68]

A slower approach for such an elderly gentleman, BUT adults often pretend disdain with wee babies, you can almost see them roll their eyes when they are being used as a new mountain...they often give you the look of "OMG You don't love me anymore? You stuck me in here with these monsters!!" LOL. They learn to "appreciate" the little brats.

 

[jorats]

Yep, I'd say he needs more time. Plus, he's probably figuring out a game plan on how best to teach these kids. lol

 

[Curiousratlover]

Alrighty, thanks for all the replies I'll give them some more time. Also, this is a weird question but if anyone knows the answer I'd be thankful.

One of the first rats I ever had died in an odd way about 3 years ago. Billy was fine all that day but near the 27 month mark I found him comatose. I have no clue how, his other 4 cagemates were perfectly fine but he was just, entirely limp, eyes closed. Breathing fine though, no leaking from eyes/nose or looking sick. No odd things in their cage. He died 3 hours later in my arms and I always wondered what happened. Is there something that makes rats go into a coma type state? Never happened again. All my other ratties died the standard old age fashion except for him and my asthmatic rescue (he outlived the vet's prognosis life expectancy of 4 months though, had a wonderful 16 months well with breathing treatments then eventually his perm respiratory problems took him) Billy's death was the only one that left me clueless.

 

[jorats]

It could have been a pituitary tumour bleed. Those nasty tumours can cause all kinds of neuro issues. It could also have been a stroke, once they get up in age, it's all a possibility.

 

[mamarat]

Patches could also still be grieving the loss of his buddies. Thomas took a long time accepting his little girls. They would sleep on him and eventually he just tried keeping up with them. It was so cute to see. lol

 

[Curiousratlover]

Okay and update, Patches is much more accepting this morning, been grooming them obsessively. Despite the occasional "You're too rough!" squeak they seem to love it, and line up in front of him again and again and he doesn't let them out of his sight.

Sorry I have one more question for now. Are rats aware enough not to squish tiny cagemates? I mean I kinda worry with the tiny babies, but they intentionally crawl underneath him and lay there with only their noses poking out. Needless to say I've never had rats this small, 3 months was youngest.

The size difference is like this: http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Pet-Rats-353 ... -2-5lb.jpg

to this http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3017/254 ... 848c84.jpg

(Note these arent my rats and the babies dont look as young as those in the pics but are that exact size)

Just afraid to discover a tragedy from an overzealous Patches since the babies I have yet to name are glued to him constantly and love his attention. Those things for pigs that prevent them from squashing their babies come to mind. :lol:

 

[jorats]

I'm so glad that Patches is doing much better and is enjoying his little buddies.
I suppose it is a possibility but I've never heard of it happening but also we always recommend waiting until the babies are at least 6 to 8 weeks old before introducing to older rats.

 

[Curiousratlover]

Ahh was not aware of the best age for being together, but now I know. I've learned a lot with these guys, especially first time putting them in his FN cage and they just walked out without even a squeeze. Left me struggling with hardware cloth for 3 hours, so not fun :emb:

But yes all is well, and I shall get to watching personalities and choosing names shortly.

 

[jorats]

I've learned a lot with these guys, especially first time putting them in his FN cage and they just walked out without even a squeeze. Left me struggling with hardware cloth for 3 hours, so not fun :emb:

:laugh4: That must have been a shocker.

 

[Curiousratlover]

Oh it was, a total baby rat newbie move. Took them 4 seconds, just 4 seconds to walk from where i put them down, to the edge and hop out.

But I named my dark brown baby Pepper, and the brown hooded white one chip.

Exact opposites, Pepper loves cuddles/skin/being held and sits completely still, chip is all over the place ready to explore and wrestle.

Favorite snacks are blueberries for Pepper and popcorn for Chip. But I am very happy with my new boys. :dance:

 

[jorats]

That's awesome.

 

[Curiousratlover]

Here are my boys. The hooded is Chip, the brown boy is pepper and the elderly boy is Patches.

Chip giving his angry face, demanding an end to the loving but frequent grooming of Patches. You will respect our Authoritah!

Patches finding them and dragging them out for grooming anyways.

Escape, and keeping a lookout!

Patches lamenting he cannot reach the babies :lol: Come here you! :redhot:

Victory cuddles!

 

[jorats]

They are extremely adorable.

 

[Angel22]

I know about rats just escaping xD I was sold a guinea pig cage for four week old rats and Jinx (my female) just walked out between the bars. I came home to one rat. :emb: Had to bust a hole in the wall to get my poor girl out. She's still scared to death and its been a week and a half.
But during her time in the wall I found out she loves crackers :giggle:

 

[Curiousratlover]

Yikes, that'd terrify me. I got 4 kitties as well, they all have played with my rats for years (besides my one boy who decided chasing cats and ripping out fur to sniff was the best fun ever :emb: they ran from him in fear ) fine but are mousers. The babies are way way too small to be recognized as rats, I'm too nervous to leave the rat room unlocked even with meticulous hardware clothing, let alone risk them getting out. My kitties all immediately gave me that "Ooooh I can eat these!" look and I knew no meeting the new babies for them. I had mice once upon a time as well, one little acrobat escaped but luckily cat brought her to me, unharmed but covered in spit and nervous. I attribute that to pure luck and smelling like me but I'd never risk it. So the FN is in my bedroom now and door kept closed until I'm satisfied no one can get out, ever and they get a bit bigger. Leads to 4 very unhappy family members crying outside my door though :lol:

 

[Angel22]

Oh I came home and had a heart attack. I'd gone away for the day with friends and came home to one rat, and no sign of Jinx anywhere. I just sat next to the cage and balled. My boyfriend and I searched for three hours for her and then put out crackers and peanut butter and the next morning some of it was pulled up to a hole so we knew she was alive. My boyfriend spent like 6 hours sitting next to th hole hopping she would come out. Finally we had to bust a hole in the wall to rescue her. Thank goodness it was only in a closet and is only fist sized. She's safe and sound now but the most timid of all my girls. Gave herself a good scare I'm thinking.
Ya my oldest cat used to be an outdoor cat so he's a mouser. My kitten just likes sniffing them through the bars of the cage. I don't really let them near each other my kitten(Misty) is just mischievous and gets into everywhere she's not allowed lol.