Doxy without Baytril? Is it a waste of time?

[fleshy]

Our little guy Kuiper has been on Doxycycline since Tuesday evening. The prescription is for 0.2MLS twice daily for 14 days. The compound is 7.5MG/ML Suspension. To be frank, I have no idea what this means. I tried to search the forums, and I just wound up concerned and confused. He's taking it without much issue (we use a good compounding pharmacy, and they beef flavored it, so he's only minorly suspicious of it), but he winds up sneezing like mad for a few minutes after each dose. Usually this can be curbed by giving him a treat in some form to distract him.

He's breathing quite a bit better now from when we first brought him into the vet, but is making new deeper sounds that resemble a quiet barking sometimes while he's resting. Sleep barking is an improvement from wake gasping, but I'm worried by the change in symptoms. He is keeping himself cleaned (which he wasn't able to in the first couple of days), and is in good spirits... but I know this just means that he is feeling "better", not well. He is sleeping most of the day and nights away, and when he is awake he is pretty well JUST sneezing the whole time. He seems to get tired of sneezing, so he just goes back to sleep. His weight is dropping, even though he is eating reasonably well and taking in plenty of fluids.
I am wondering if the dosage is right, but most importantly if I should be asking for Baytril as well. He is very very VERY nervous, and makes himself extremely anxious if he's having any difficulty breathing (understandably) or if he's sneezing. Within 30 seconds a sneeze turns into a panic attack, and he is running out of the cage to be reassured that he's OK! A few pats and kisses and he usually calms right down, and often he even falls asleep being as head kisses are his very favorite passtime. (He really is the sweetest little furball you ever could meet!)
I tried giving him a few doses childrens benadryl to see if that would help, but the effect was nothing remarkable. I think most of his sneezing fits are nervousness related. He just wants to cuddle and sleep all day and night.

The vet is very knowledgeable and caring, we've dealt with her before in regards to sick degus we fostered/rescued. But I'm growing concerned after reading up on the forum here, that she didn't also prescribe Baytril. Should she have? Am I only increasing the strength of the bacteria in Kuiper's little body by single-medicating? He's only 5 months old, but has never had an issue before. He didn't even come home sneezy! And I am worried that if we don't bite this in the bud quickly, he may end up with more serious longterm issues that we could have avoided. He pulled some fluff out of a rip in the couch last week and i'm 99% sure that is what caused the flare up!
Our house is a an astma-safe house. Steam mops and dusters, true hepa air purifiers, electric oil and infrared heaters and UVB lights. We don't use scented products, chemical cleaners or detergents or un-natural body products and nobody smokes here. He WAS on carefresh bedding, but since his breathing issues kicked in we've had him on fabric and have been changing it many times a day. We've also been running a humidifier near the cage, but now he just sounds wet sneezy instead of dry sneezy. I hope this info is helpful in some way and I'm not just rambling like a madwoman!

When the vet listened to him, she said that it didn't sound like the infection had spread deep into the lungs, and that he was otherwise extremely healthy.
What should I do? Am I over reacting prematurely, as it's only been 5 doses of Doxy? The clinic closed Sundays, and I don't want to risk him getting sicker and not being able to do anything...

I will get his weight once he wakes up... I fear his premature awakening only increases sneezing... and sneezing makes it hard to get a proper weight reading!

Thank you so much in advance! <3

 

[victoria]

If he's only 5 months old and you've seen improvement, Doxy may be enough. We need his weight to check his dose - the dose prescribed is for a 333g rat.

You should talk to your vet about getting a longer prescription. Three weeks is the absolute minimum when treating a respiratory infection, usually you need at least four weeks.

If he's not improving on Doxy alone, you should call the vet and ask them to add Baytril... you can even ask that they consult with a more experienced vet if they aren't comfortable doing so. I've found cool mist humidifiers helpful when they are congested the way you are describing, especially if the AC is on drying out the environment.

 

[fleshy]

Nearest I can figure he's coming in between 310-320grams. He's awful squirmy at this hour, sick or otherwise! So that dose does seem about right. He's lost a little bit of mass in the last few days, but gained a lot of energy. At what length of treatment do you think I should ask for Baytril, if the Doxycycline isn't helping? I've tried to look into how long Doxy takes to show real improvements, but I can't seem to find a viable timeline. I think I may be keying things in wrong! Anything I've found also involves Baytril, steroids or decongestant medications in conjunction with the Doxy.

I will definitely call in the morning about getting an extended prescription. I guess 2 weeks of antibiotics would be just about enough time to create a superbug... I can not thank you enough! This forum is fantastic! :heart: :heart: You all are fantastic!

As for Veterinarians though, there is only one in the city who will treat small animals. So hopefully she'll be understanding. No other clinic will even let you in the door with anything other then a canine or feline, unless you are seeking euthanasia.

 

[lilspaz68]

He has improved over 5 days which is good but he did sound terribly sick (open mouth gasping is often a sign they are going to be dying soon), but a new symptom of "sleep barking" is not a good sign. Its been 5 days on doxy, I would go and ask for baytril now. Nasal congestion can easily move into the lungs if that's all your vet heard 5 days ago. As for doxy alone? I would use it on a very very mild URI but a bad one with open mouth gasping would automatically get the big guns of at least baytril/doxy. So very sorry you only have the option of one vet to go to, hopefully she understands, when you tell her he's only a little better, he's still losing weight (not good in a young rat) and he's got new symptoms.

 

[fleshy]

I've spoken to the clinic and am feeling much more confident about the treatment plan. The problem is, the pharmacy does not have anybody onstaff qualified to compound medications in such small doses until Monday morning. >_< They've assured me it'll be ready for pickup by Noon on Monday... but it just feels like we've had the door slammed in our faces.
Kuiper is doing better today, even if only a bit. His nose is less wet, and his sneezes are less aggressive/consistent. But that light sort of sneezy barking sound is still present (though also, less aggressive). Every time I hear it, my stomach knots up.
We're going to start him on Ensure today, just to try and keep his intake up. I've read that you should wait at least a half hour after administering Doxy to give him the Ensure... would it just be safer to space them a couple hours apart or would this make any difference?

We have a Vicks warm humidifier with a chamber for getting vicks into the steam, and I'm wondering if using some form of oil or herb in this may be of help to his breathing? Anybody have any experience in this? The vet is looking into ways to home-nebulize without us having to purchase a nebulizer... has anybody picked up one of the cheaper nebulizers on ebay with luck? Is it better just to buy a higher end one?

Sorry for the abundance of questions. I'm searching through the topics as best I know how. A panicky Mum is rarely a very clever Mum I'd say, and I'm all sorts of out of sorts! So much information to take in...

Many many many thanks again!

 

[victoria]

I purchased this nebulizer and it works well. It produces the right size microns and is a LOT cheaper than any others I have found and was delivered quickly. It is a little noisy but most of them are. http://www.medexsupply.com/products/pid ... essorN.htm

 

[Aida]

I'd say just take a deep breath. Monday is the day after tomorrow, and if he's getting the doxy. and even if there is only a teeny bit of improvement he'll be OK till then. It's not a waste of time to just use doxy., as it has been succesful before. Maybe your vet just thought it was milder than it is. Just call the clinic/pharmacy again, and ask them to have it ready first thing. If it gets worse, you can always try calling a different vet(even non-rat) and just ask him to prescribe you some baytril, or you can ask your vet to see if he/she can ask around. They have contacts, afterall.

Good luck and I hope I could help!!!

 

[fleshy]

Thank you Victoria. I'm going to try and see if I can find a Canadian distributor for that one, as the shipping calculator came up more then the cost of the machine itself. I called around to the local medical supply stores, but nobody could rent one to me on such short notice. They all said to call back Monday.
So I managed to fashion a rudimentary nebulizer out of a childs nebulizer mask (we snagged it the first time my son had an Asthma attack and had to be nebulized in the hospital as a strange memento of sorts... never been so happy to be a packrat before!) and a handheld air pump. It's not pretty, but it works!
I feel better knowing we have something in the meantime, in case we run into any issues before Monday morning. I'm posting a photo in hopes that other users can make use of this quick rigging in a pickle. You can get the masks at most medical supply stores, and the pump is from a bargain bin.
We washed the nebulizer throughly, and ran saline through it first since it was used before.



And thank you Aida, I really do need to breathe! I am a hover'er by nature. A deep breath is very good advice!

 

[SQ]

If the doxy & baytril combo helps, he will need to be on them for at least 6 weeks.
Injectable baytril can be given orally (but tastely awlful so needs to be sweeetened when given) .... therefore no compounding is necessary and injectable baytril has a very long shelf life.

 

[victoria]

Thank you Victoria. I'm going to try and see if I can find a Canadian distributor for that one, as the shipping calculator came up more then the cost of the machine itself. I called around to the local medical supply stores, but nobody could rent one to me on such short notice. They all said to call back Monday.
So I managed to fashion a rudimentary nebulizer out of a childs nebulizer mask (we snagged it the first time my son had an Asthma attack and had to be nebulized in the hospital as a strange memento of sorts... never been so happy to be a packrat before!) and a handheld air pump. It's not pretty, but it works!
I feel better knowing we have something in the meantime, in case we run into any issues before Monday morning. I'm posting a photo in hopes that other users can make use of this quick rigging in a pickle. You can get the masks at most medical supply stores, and the pump is from a bargain bin.
We washed the nebulizer throughly, and ran saline through it first since it was used before.

You just have to make sure the nebulizer is producing particles that are the right size - .5-5 microns - otherwise they won't do any good. Nebulizers in Canada retail for $200-300, so even with shipping, that nebulizer is probably your best bet.