Don't know which advice to follow, help!

[tokiandskwis]

Hi everyone,

This is my first time and posting and four days ago I got my two first rats, they are 2 and a half months old, two brothers.

The breeder told me they were well handled, so when I brought them home I let them settle in their cage for one day, and the following day I tried to interact with them a little.
They seem terrified and will run and hide the moment I move towards them. I have read about trust training with treats and taking it slow and I have also read about "forced" socialization.
Tonight I got one of the rats out and put him on my bed to get used to me and run around a little. WELL. He tried to take a dive off my bed and it was a mad panic to get him back to the cage after that (he was freaking out that I stopped him from jumping off) In the few days I have had them I have made some progress (got them to take a treat from my hand) but other than that they are very very shy and I just dont know which angle to take! Do I force them out the cage to get used to me or do I wait until they want to come to me? Everything I read says something new. Please help, I dont want to scare my boys or make them fear me even more.

 

[RatPack]

I honestly think that for the most part it is personal preference..I like to take my time and let them decided when they want to come out of their cage and when they are ready to be held..ect. Time,patience and love is my method but it can take some time depending on the rat and being you just got them not to long ago, I am sure they will start to warm up soon

 

[Claireybell2477]

Oh lord, I am having the same problem with one of my new boys. About 2 weeks ago I adopted 4 boys that are nearly 4 months old. I discovered that one of them is terrified of me. He wouldn't come to me, he'd just cower. The others are all fine. One day I mistook this boy for one of the more playful ones and tried to hand wrestle him and he bit me. Not hard, but enough to where I could tell it was him straight away.

I too have been very confused with conflicting info! The first night, I took him out (it was a nightmare trying to pick him up!) and put him in my hoody. He was just really distressed and I figured I'd take the other approach. I've had a biter before because she wasn't handled enough from the folks I adopted her from and my regret was that I didn't spend enough time with her. So my reasoning was to nip this problem in the bud right now. But the trust, patience and time and so far it's working out well I have to say. He now comes to me. Cautiously albeit, but he's licking things off my fingers, taking treats and being calm most of the time when I pick him up. A lot of progress in two weeks! I'm taking a leap of faith with it and working with him as much as possible.

Talk to them as much as you can in a calm and soothing voice. Engage from a distance. Be patient and give them treats. Let them lick things off your fingers whilst talking to them. I've also found the best thing to do to get my Bennett used to being touched is to get them when they are sleepy. They will be more relaxed. Bennett is most sleepy in the morning and early evenings. That's when I pet him.

Watching the others and following their lead has helped him tremendously. Rats are so smart. With time, patience and persistence, they are sure to make progress. But I know what you're going through!

Keep us updated on progress. I hope it gives you encouragment that Bennett has made progress within 2 weeks. And he was terrified!

 

[jorats]

I used to be very much into forced socialization and then I started to read the science behind it with dogs and I no longer push it. Although, I don't see the same behaviour as when a dog is flooded but it sure is close...I think slow, trust training is the way to go, if you have the patience for it. www.joinrats.com has some great tips for that.

 

[tokiandskwis]

Thanks for the input everyone! I'm struggling to find some treats that they really go mad for :/ I've tried yogurt drops and chocolate drops and they dont seem overly interested. They'll have a little nibble and then leave it.

Today I had to swap out wooden shelves in their cage for DIY plastic ones (had to get creative) so to install them I took both of them out the cage. For the first time they didnt run for dear life! They were scared and cowered, but they didnt rush off. I gently stoked them both around the face/ears and then lifted them, (hand under belly and other hand to support hind legs) instead to desperately trying to escape they were reasonably calm! I must be doing something right?! Im such a paranoid new mom lol

 

[Joanne]

Most times when rats are scared, they won't take or eat food. If you leave a treat for them overnight and it is gone the next day, then they liked it. LOL
My rats really like scrambled eggs, avocado, unsalted peanuts, cooked pasta like spaghetti (sauce makes it yummier), cooked oatmeal, stuff like that. Don't get me wrong, they like veggies and fruits, but don't go gaga over them.
I guess I find I make more progress spending some one-on-one time with them down my shirt. I rescued a bunch of nakies over a year ago and wasn't making much progress with some of them until we did some forced socialization. Most of the time I just open the cage doors and hang out next to the cage. Then they come by and crawl across me, pee on me, and are on their way. LOL
My latest guy is very flighty, but he has forced socialization twice a day with me because I have to force-medicate him. He's not happy about that, but will still interact with me outside of those times, although he is the only one to take off when it's time to go to bed!

 

[Claireybell2477]

Yes that's a sure sign of progress! It can only get better from here. Bennett let me rub him under his chin this morning when he was very sleepy. He still cringes slightly. But today I was pleased to see he stretched out his little paw whilst I was scritching him under the chin. I think he's learning to like being touched.

Try having the lick tasty sauces or something sweet off your fingers. Dip your fingers in some yoghurt or something, I think that's a really good way of engaging with them as you talk to them.

 

[tokiandskwis]

So despite progress I made, this morning I had the cage door open and Toki (the brave one!) was coming out confidently and taking food from my hand. He then decided to explore the cage and soon realized turning around and going back in was not going to be easy, I used my hand to try and guide him and...he bit me It wasnt enough to hurt but it really seemed like a "back off". I hope Im not going to have a biter on my hands, I wasnt being forceful or anything Maybe he still smelt the food on my hands? I dont think they know they just lick stuff off haha they always use teeth first

 

[Velo]

Did you bleed? If not don't even think twice about it.

If so, bloody bites do happen, usually from accidents. I wouldn't worry about it either just be super aware during the beginning. It's a good idea to keep watch on their eyes and see if they know you are there before you get close.
Also if it's bloody... I recommend not using a bandaid when you are around them. Some rats hate bandaids and try desperately to get them off of you and that can be painful haha!

 

[tokiandskwis]

Hi Velo, thankfully it was just a nip, not enough to hurt or draw blood, Im just not sure what I did wrong to cause such a reaction and I'm worried its going to become a habit. *Sigh* the breeder I got them from said they were well handled from birth :/

 

[Velo]

I think you surprised him and it was a knee jerk fear reaction. Like I said, in the beginning, it pays to be hyper vigilant and really pay attention to where your hands are. You know where they are but the rat might not, and become rather surprised when they do see it!

If it ever happens again, loudly yelp "eeek!!" And he will understand that he has hurt you. You may recognize such a noise when they wrestle and the losing boy yells "uncle!"

Breeders lie. I don't trust or like any of them for a plethora of reasons and lying about how social they are is a pretty common problem.

Just give it some time and they will warm up to you

 

[tokiandskwis]

Okay I will do I like to believe if he wanted to really hurt me he would have. I think he freaked out because he couldnt work out how to get back inside the cage. Hopefully they will continue to improve! Thanks for the advice

 

[Velo]

Ya if he wanted to, you'd be bleeding hehe.
Good luck

 

[Joanne]

Like Velo said,
- when they nip you, Eeeep! loudly like they do so he understands you object to his action. Since they are new, he may be testing his boundaries with you. I have been nibbled on and and I have had my fingers grabbed when yummy food is on them (if they do, don't pull away, just wait. They figure it out quickly. If it's too hard, eeeep!) and I have really been gotten when I put my hand between two girls when one attacked. Which comes to the second point;
- trust me, it is very easy for them to inflict severe wounds. If you are not bleeding freely, they didn't bite you. LOL

 

[Zephye]

I sort of used a mix of 'forced' and slow easy trust training, although mine's a pretty light version of the 'forced' socialization. Depending on the rat and their background (abused, pet store, barely handled) really determines how I approach it.
My original rats I got from a pet store (I don't really regret it but I rescue from now on), they were with me for a long time but still didn't trust walking onto my hands/being handled much. They would take treats, climb on me when they wanted but I wanted to take the extra step. I read about 'forced' socialization and basically just put my rats on a chair with me and would just pet them while talking to them, after 20 minutes I would let them roam around by themselves though. I wouldn't put them in a hoodie since neither liked it. Of course there was also lots of treats involved in this chair time too. This worked great for me and they were pretty much perfect after.

Vincent, Bandit and Edgar. All are rescue who were either neglected, abused or stuck in a tank with a snake at one point. They were very scared of any movement, of human hands and basically anything. I would start with treats, and put my hand in the cage; letting it rest there so they can sniff and interact with me. I would often talk with them, and try to put my hand underneath them and give them treats. Once they were comfortable with me enough where I could pet and hold them for a little bit. I would do that 'chair' time again, (sometimes it was a bed since some liked to jump from the chair). I would always wear a hoodie that was slightly unzipped so they would have the option to hide against me if they needed to feel safe in a 'dark' place. I would always give them treats if they let me pet them during chair time.
I don't know if these are the best ways to go about things but it's worked pretty much for me.

 

[tokiandskwis]

I think I'll go down that route after they are a little more relaxed about me touching them. The poor things just seem to freeze when I bring my hand near them and I feel so bad. I think eventually I'll sit with them in an empty bath tub. I'm scared to further their distrust of me. These are my first rats and Im worried Im making rookie mistakes despite loads of research!

 

[Petunia]

I think I'll go down that route after they are a little more relaxed about me touching them. The poor things just seem to freeze when I bring my hand near them and I feel so bad. I think eventually I'll sit with them in an empty bath tub. I'm scared to further their distrust of me. These are my first rats and Im worried Im making rookie mistakes despite loads of research!

don't worry, we all learn from our mistakes and rats are very intelligent, very forgiving and also adaptable, which is what has made them so successful over the years in keeping their species going in spite of all the attempts to eradicate them (as wild rats I mean, of course)

anyway you only just got them, they need to adjust to their new home, the new sounds, smells etc. it can take several weeks for them to do that.

One thing I find that has helped nervous or just new rats come around to trusting me more is to keep to a sort of ritual so the rats know what to expect.
I ALWAYS talk to them before opening the cage so they know that I am there. Use a friendly tone and say the same things to them each time, for me, I always say something to the effect of "how are my ratties today?" in a sing song voice.
I like to baby talk to my ratties as well, they seem to like it.:lol3:
you can convey a lot to them just in your tone of voice.
If you are nervous and you're afraid your voice may show it, you could try playing music that is happy and that will both calm and distract you AND them.

when it's time to come out of the cage, I always say to my ratties, "who wants to go play in the room?"
when it's time to go back to their cage, I say Ok it's time to go home (that's when the girls run and hide LOLone girl always makes me hunt her down. she is also smart enough not to fall for being offered a treat at that time, she knows it's a trick so I can scoop her up LOL they are so smart)
I have had my two girls for about oh, 6 weeks now I think? and just recently have I been able to take them out without a struggle. They were not used to being picked up and while it's still not their favorite thing, they are tolerating it more and more each time I do it.
They (and I) have the advantage of having my two boys who trust me and climb all over me, so that helped them to come around to liking me faster than if I only had the two scared girls.

just stay calm, be positive and loving, try to put up a confident front and they will respond to that. in time, they will trust you more and you will trust them and yourself more ;-)
it's a process, and with each new rat, it may be a bit different, so it's good to have a variety of methods and ideas to draw from.

then you find what works best for you. if you find something working, keep going with that and then build on it.

you're doing great so far!!

 

[Joanne]

I think I'll go down that route after they are a little more relaxed about me touching them. The poor things just seem to freeze when I bring my hand near them and I feel so bad. I think eventually I'll sit with them in an empty bath tub. I'm scared to further their distrust of me. These are my first rats and Im worried Im making rookie mistakes despite loads of research!

If you are always calm and treat them kindly, then it doesn't matter too much what you do. If they can associate you with treats and soft strokes, they will learn to trust you and seek you out.

 

[tokiandskwis]

They seem to be doing well! Both of them came out onto my lap yesterday and took some baby food from my finger :3 thanks everyone!

 

[jorats]

Great news!