Dexter's Vet Visit..Back to the Vet Again

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lilspaz68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
24,426
Location
Toronto, Canada, Earth
Dexter was on baytril/doxy for almost a week but it wasn't making a dent into his noisy URI. When he started a scary whine on top of it then this other occasional noise on Thursday, I called the vet and got him an appointment for Friday. When I was waiting in the lobby with him in my lap, one of the assistant Leah said he was the loudest breathing rat they had ever seen. :undecided:

Even Dr Munn came out from the back to see him. They had just gotten in a special tank/chamber for the practice. It would nebulize and provide O2 at the same time, and had controllable temperature and humidity levels as well. They were almost excited and wanted to pop him in there right away. They had only gotten their expensive new "toy" the week prior. :laugh4: Dr Munn said we really should X-ray him,so I agreed.

Dexter was x-rayed, and his lungs are quite consolidated but we expected that. He was given a shot of lasix, left for 2 hours and then x-rays were taken again. This was to rule out cardiac issues as they were looking for the lungs to clear dramatically and there was almost no change, ruling out cardiac (I have an email into Karen Grant of ratguide to ask what the explanation is behind this.) He was kept in the chamber all day as Dr Munn wanted to see how good he could get and poor Dexter would improve then worsen. So we changed up his meds and are going to try something different (this is just a starting point)

Zithromax
Doxycycline
Theophylline

and .05 cc's of dexamethasone in 10 ml's of fluid sub-q every 3 days.

And I am to keep in touch with Dr Munn and let him know how he does on this. I would assume a week will give us a better idea. The good news is that he has good body condition, he's not acting sick, eats and drinks well and there's no porphryin on his eyes or nose.

Here are pics of Dexter's -xrays with my terrible layman descriptions LOL

Right side. Healthy lungs should be black...white shows up for solid things like bone, fluids (which my says looks "puffy" :giggle: ), consolidation like tumours or pulmonary abscesses. The more white in a lung, the worse it is. My vet also says lines in the cloudiness indicates tumours or abscesses. You won't be able to see it in these pics but I did see it on the actual xrays.

Dexterxray-rightsidesm.jpg


X-ray while he's on his back. The white shape going to the left in this pic is his heart...you can see the clouding in the other lung

Dexterxray-onbacksm.jpg


His very bad left lung...does anyone need an explanation?

Dexterxray-leftsidesm.jpg
 
Oh my gosh. I'm sorry, I can't help ya, I've only had 5 rats in my whole life.

However, thank you so much for posting this. I've never truly seen a rat X-Ray, and the pictures plus your descriptionns were really educational.

Your boy is obviously a fighter- from what I understand, it's bad, yet he's still holding up well. :)
 
OK so Jenny and I worked out why Dr.Munn did the lasix injection and x-ray to check for improvement. :thumbup:

Basically the heart pumps the blood through the body with oxygen rich blood to nourish the body, the blood goes back into the heart and is then pumped into the lungs to pick up more blood...over and over with a healthy heart. When there is a cardiac issue,the heart is not able to get the oxygenated blood to the extremities (coolness and darkness are signs of oxygen not getting to the extremities. The heart is also not able to get the oxygen from the lungs as fluid is building up in there.

Here is an awesome site that explains how the heart/lungs works normally and then how heart failure affects the process.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pulmon ... ION=causes

With lasix being a diuretic, it reduces blood volume, making it easier to pump the blood through and the fluid to clear from the lungs.

If it is infection in the lungs, changing blood volume would have little effect which is why heart issues were ruled out when Dexter's lungs didn't clear.
 
Poor Dexter! Maybe we've got the explanation for either his biting (feeling soooo bad!) or new friendly behavior (too sick to fight). I'm glad the heart issue has been ruled out, and I really hope the new combo will clear those lungs up! If you get a follow-up x-ray later, please post it as I'd be curious to see the improvement!
 
Did he need to be sedated for the xray? I'd like to get Oscar xrayed but he panics too much when he's stressed (anything that gets him excited makes it harder for him to breath and then he panics and wants to get as far away from everyone as possible) too he's too sick to sedate.

It's interesting that you can screen for heart issues with an xray even if the heart is not enlarged.
 
Ohhh someone from Goosemoose explained a bit more why Dr Munn checked for cardiac issues...

Because Theophylline can cause tachycardia, you want to make sure there are no cardiac issues first. If the problem is cardiac primary, lung secondary, then using Theophylline can be a disaster. By trying the Lasix first, if you get a positive response you know the issue is primarily cardiac. If there is no improvement in pulmonary symptoms on Lasix, then the lung problem is primary and you can proceed with Theophylline.
 
:shock:
I am SO glad that I gave Dexter to you.
He surely would have died if he stayed with me.
Dr Munn is amazing and with his help and knowledge you are able to educate us.
Has he bitten you yet or was I the "lucky" one?
Give him kisses for me.
I miss "Mr. grouchy shorts." :cuddle:
 
Quite a significant finding on those x-rays. It's amazing he can breathe at all. Have you had him in the oxygen cage yet to see how he fares?
 
Joanne said:
Quite a significant finding on those x-rays. It's amazing he can breathe at all. Have you had him in the oxygen cage yet to see how he fares?

He doesn't seem to need it yet...he's not labouring, and as they had him in the O2/Neb chamber at the vets it didn't make a huge difference,b but don't worry I watch him and listen for him like a hawk.:p
 
Today I noticed an improvement with Dexter. The loud constant crackling has diminished a lot. The whine and other noise seems more prevalent but that's because its not covered up by the white noise of his constant crackle. I am pleased!

Tonight I find out how much he doesn't like being interfered with. Its his next of the 3-day sub-q injections of dex and 10 ml's of fluid. 10 ml's is not always the easiest to get into a rat, as they feel the pressure building up under their skin and start to wiggle. You have to do it slowly and steadily and if you are able I prefer to warm up the big syringe (with ringers or saline in it) in the microwave to bring it to more of a rat's body temp so it doesn't feel cold going in.

And I have discovered that after his icky meds, Dexter loves a bomb around the floor with some cuddles and pats in between as his reward. :D
 
i decided to do everyone this morning. Cesar got his 6 ml's and .04 cc and he was such a good boy!

Dexter would buck and jump and shriek...so I finally tried his flank and he was much better. Still didn't like it but it's thinner skin there so I am sure the needle goes in easier. Plus it is farther from his head/teeth for me :thumbup:
 
lilspaz68 said:
i decided to do everyone this morning. Cesar got his 6 ml's and .04 cc and he was such a good boy!

Dexter would buck and jump and shriek...so I finally tried his flank and he was much better. Still didn't like it but it's thinner skin there so I am sure the needle goes in easier. Plus it is farther from his head/teeth for me :thumbup:

No bites from Dex I hope? :roll:
Cesars just a big puddin' cup tho isn't he?
Life never gets boring with Dexter around. :cuddle:
 
No bites...he gets "manly" sometimes but calms down quickly :) When I mean manly he gets excited about smells and just wants to go check them out...don't hold me! I want down!
 
So Dexter finished a month of his treatment and within 3 days started to worsen, so he went back on it again, its been almost 3 more weeks and the combo is not stopping his gradual regression again. So back to the vet we go for an exam and hopefully a change up of meds. I just called back and added to his file, it CANNOT be injectable meds as this is when Dexter *may* chomp me, and he stresses horribly me just pulling up his skin, much less getting a needle in there. I am also going to be letting Xanthe and little Loki-man go as well. Loki is/was Cecil's brother, and his respiratory issues and aging are too much now. Xanthe has tumours but she's healthier than he is, and he loooves her. I will give them part of the week to cuddle with each other and let them go. :sad3:
 

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