Cage Agression

[smilez_n_hugs]

I was really hoping it wouldn't come to this but I'm at a complete loss of what to do next.

Lincoln was rescued by CCH this summer after his cagemate passed away and his owner decided she couldn't handle rats' short lifespan. I immediately fell in love and he came to live with me. We estimate him to be a little more than a year old. I started intros as soon as he came home and he got along well with everyone until it was time to move into the cage. It all happened so fast, my alpha tried to pin Linc (like he had outside the cage) and Linc lost it. Luckily I was the only one to get hurt when I tried to pick him up to get him out of there (after almost a week, 3 days off work and some serious abs my hand returned to normal :giggle: ). So after that it was obvious a neuter was the next step. After his neuter I started very slow intros with 2 of my older neutered boys. Things were going well but I gave Linc well over a month before attempting more cage intros. It didn't go much better this time. The alpha of the group successfully pinned Linc which I thought was a good start, Linc responded by getting up and biting the poor guy, thankfully he only got some fur. So back to just out time together for another month at which point I tried them in the cage again. This time Linc started aggressively bruxxing when either of them came near him and would pinch my fingers (luckily covered by a towel) when I picked him up. I did leave him a bit longer in the cage in hopes that he would calm down but he only got more agitated.

So I made the decision to foster some girls from CCH to try them with Linc. As I'm sure you can guess it didn't go well he got all puffy and bouncy (which I've come to learn is something he does when he's agitated) and started chasing the girls with his mouth open. :gaah: At this point I decided to just let him have out time with my larger group. It has now been almost 4 months since his neuter and he seems to be getting worse. Now during out time he's getting all puffy and bouncy and when I pick him up I get warning nips. :wallbang: He loves to run around my bed and sleep under the covers at my feet but if any of my other rats make a noise while he's out his full attention goes to watching the cage and occasionally bruxxing at it.

I'm at a loss as to where to go next. He's young and he deserves to have friends I'm just not sure what else to try. I am by no means giving up and will continue to try intros but I'm wondering if anyone has any tricks or ideas that might help?

And a few pics of the neurotic little man, he's a gorgeous minky boy.

 

[jorats]

Wow. He's got it bad.
How is he in the cage living alone and you going into his cage?
It really sounds neurological with him... I don't think that's something you will be able to change. The chattering, that is bad, it's almost extreme anxiety. You could try clicker training or positive reinforcement training where, each time there's a rat around, he gets a treat for not reacting.

 

[lilspaz68]

Wow. He's got it bad.
How is he in the cage living alone and you going into his cage?
It really sounds neurological with him... I don't think that's something you will be able to change. The chattering, that is bad, it's almost extreme anxiety. You could try clicker training or positive reinforcement training where, each time there's a rat around, he gets a treat for not reacting.

He sounds very fear aggressive to me...get them before they get you Do you have some nice calm girl who will just ignore him when he chatters and worries?

 

[victoria]

Wow. He's got it bad.
How is he in the cage living alone and you going into his cage?
It really sounds neurological with him... I don't think that's something you will be able to change. The chattering, that is bad, it's almost extreme anxiety. You could try clicker training or positive reinforcement training where, each time there's a rat around, he gets a treat for not reacting.

He sounds very fear aggressive to me...get them before they get you Do you have some nice calm girl who will just ignore him when he chatters and worries?

Have you tried scary intros with him and one easy going rat? He may be more likely to take to other rats if he learns to accept one rat again. If you think anxiety is part of the issue, you can try an EPA-rich supplement - there's a lot of evidence it helps with human anxiety, it may help with his (and it's relatively safe).

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Wow. He's got it bad.
How is he in the cage living alone and you going into his cage?

Surprisingly he's absolutely fine with me. I can reach right in the cage and grab him and I always stick my fingers through the bars at him and he's never even attempted to bite....just give kisses.

Do you have some nice calm girl who will just ignore him when he chatters and worries?

My worries with this is that even if they ignore him (like the girls did) he will start chasing them. I have an older calm girl living with another of my neutered males that I might try to gauge his reaction but I don't hold much hope.

It honestly makes me wonder if he killed his last cagemate and that's why the lady wanted to get rid of him.

Have you tried scary intros with him and one easy going rat? He may be more likely to take to other rats if he learns to accept one rat again. If you think anxiety is part of the issue, you can try an EPA-rich supplement - there's a lot of evidence it helps with human anxiety, it may help with his (and it's relatively safe).

The scary place doesn't seem to have an affect because he was fine outside the cage with the other rats. I will definitely be looking into a supplement for him.

 

[jorats]

So it's just rats that set him off. I'd give him a break, no rats for a while and maybe try again later.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Just thought I'd update...I tried another intro with Linc and he didn't immediate start chattering or chasing the other male. He did tense up though so I'm taking it very slow and removing him as soon as he starts to get worked up. It's a slow process but I'm really hoping there's a possibility he will accept friends.

 

[hopefloats]

He sounds like he needs a nice spayed girlfriend

 

[jorats]

Try removing him before he gets worked up. You don't want his remembering his intro as being stressed.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

He sounds like he needs a nice spayed girlfriend

I have tried him with a few different girls with no success. He terrifies them

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Try removing him before he gets worked up. You don't want his remembering his intro as being stressed.

I'll try...it will make for very short intros :giggle:

 

[hopefloats]

He sounds like he needs a nice spayed girlfriend

I have tried him with a few different girls with no success. He terrifies them

Lol he is one bad boy. Temppleton was horrible did you trry him with a younger male at all? That was the only way for him.

 

[jorats]

Try removing him before he gets worked up. You don't want his remembering his intro as being stressed.

I'll try...it will make for very short intros :giggle:

Right when he starts to get upset, hand him a super yummy treat and then remove him when he's done the treat, have all the rats have a treat so the energy in the room is good when ending the intros.

 

[SQ]

I would suggest that you decide which small group or pair you think he would do well iving with.
Then do gradual intros.
Once he is able to be with them outside of the cage in the play area, gradually increase the time they are together.
I assume this will work as you wrote that he does ok with others outside of a cage.

When he is ok with the others for several hours in the play area, try them in a large martins play pen if you have one or can borrow one.
Gradually increase the time they spend together in the play pen to the point where you can leave them in there for most of a day.
Then try leaving them in the playpen. After a couple of weeks living together in the playpen, you might try them in a huge neutral area cage.

Otherwise, I would let him live alone for now but have hours and hours of time each day with the others you think he would do well living with, free ranging in your play area.

I look forward to updates.
Good luck

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

I assume this will work as you wrote that he does ok with others outside of a cage.

I must have forgot to update but shortly after my first post he started to be aggressive during out time which is why I stopped everything completely for a little while. Right now it's a challenge to have him out with anyone without having him get worked up.

I will definitely be using the treat idea Jo suggested and hopefully that will help.