Bully Attacking Sick Cagemate

[turkcm]

So I have had my resident rat, Kelso since December. He's always been a runt (I got him from the pet store I worked at) and always was noisy in breathing and chirping. He was immediately vet checked and the vet had no concerns, he was just a runt. I was feeling bad because he was by himself since I got him. He had supervised playdates with my females and then he'd go back to his cage. But a few months ago I needed to have both my girls put down due to tumors. I thought it would be a good time to adopt a rat from the shelter so he'd have a buddy. They got along great right off the bat, just one or two scuffles and then they would snuggle and clean each other. Kelso then came down with a bad URI and with his weight loss and lack of energy, his new friend (Iron) began beating him up mercilessly...

Poor Kelso is covered in scabs and his rump is almost hairless now due to being bitten. I got a much bigger cage hoping that would help, but I woke up to Kelso having paraphimosis due to a scuffle overnight. I really don't want to give up my new rat, Iron, but it was just very strange that they got along fine until Kelso got sick... I don't have the room to house them separately and I don't want to get another two rats so they each have friends. The fighting really isn't helping Kelso get better and now I've been slathering his wounds with Soother+ and trying to deal with his paraphimosis. Anyone else ever have this happen? Any suggestions would be helpful.

 

[hopefloats]

If iron is being a jerk then he needs to be neutered. I dont really think "giving" up is an option because you adopted that rat and it is your responsiblity to make him right. If Kelso is getting hurt, split them up until you can get him neutered. do out time together but would you like to live with a person that kicked your butt daily? If he is getting wounds it is cruel to keep him in there where he cannot get away. The penis problem is probably nothing to do with that but an underlying issue. Can you post pictures of this boys belly and back? It could be mites causing the hairloss but if it isnt, you need to split him up. Make room for another cage. Cages can stack on top of each other. If your cage is big enough you can split it into. It is so unfair to keep him in there because you do not have room to split them up. Pets are helpless and it is expected that we help them. Even if you get iron more friends, chances are he will kick their butts as well. He is a hormonal male if he is causing injuries to Kelso.

To get his willy back in you will need an antiinflamatory to help bring the swelling down, You will also need ky to keep it lubed up so that it does not dry out and cause more harm.

 

[turkcm]

I'm asking for advice, not to be put down. If you are trying to help, don't tell me everything I'm doing is wrong- it makes me seem like a terrible owner, which I'm not. I'm a veterinary technician and care very deeply for all of my fur kids.

Anywho... I separated them as soon as I saw Kelso was getting hurt. I split the cage in two to see how that works. I cannot fit another cage, period. The place where I'm at is small. In the past I've tried stacking cages but top cages tip, especially when you have curious cats living with you... He does not have mites. He has been to the vet and he is being treated for his paraphimosis and URI. His paraphimosis was caused by trauma.

I'm more looking for advice as to if anyone else has had this happen to them and what was done/the outcome. I understand if it's hormonal, but they got along just fine several weeks before Kelso got sick. Kelso was very much the boss. I'm doing what I can within my means.

 

[BlueSkyy]

Most rats will not attack sick or injured rats that they have been living with. In my experience, when a rat puffs out its fur and sidles up against another rat and then bites/chases it, it's hormonal/dominance related and neutering the aggressor usually (in a few weeks time) cures the issue. How great is the age difference between the two?

 

[turkcm]

I'd say Kelso is about 6-7 months Iron's senior.

 

[hopefloats]

Then you shouldnt say " I really dont want to give him up" like that is an option. that is not acceptable in any form of pet ownership. when you adopt males rats you have to be prepared to neuter or split them up. But if you are saying he has enough sores that you have to put ointment on then something is wrong. One thing I will never do is sugar coat this especially when one rat is being beaten by his cagemate and it comes up as a thought to ever get rid of an animal that a person chose to adopt. You can post your cage we can help you with how to split it, you can post your whole area and we can help you figure out how to place another cage in there. I personally will not be ok with seeing that a male is hurting over another male. Especially when a simple neuter will solve the problem. This is part of males rats just as tumors is part of female rats.

 

[turkcm]

You aren't a part of the solution, hopefloats, so please stop replying because all you are doing is making me angry. I shouldn't be attacked for asking for help and I don't feel the need to defend myself. It's unfair for someone to assume that "I'm going to purposely watch my rats fight and do nothing about it." How dare you assume so much about a person when you have no idea their situation or history?
fftopic: :ranton:

I've had rats for years. When my first female got sick, her cagemate treated her the same. I've never had to neuter males before. They always got along fine and never had any health issues. It almost seems like after I give Kelso his meds, I think Iron likes the cherry Baytril and licks his mouth a lot. Kelso gets sick of it and pushes him off and then Iron snaps and retaliates.

 

[Sheldon]

If you think it is caused by jealousy could you give Iron and Kelso both some cherry syrup for a treat? Maybe if they both smell the same it won't be an issue.

 

[jorats]

From the first post, I'd say you've got a bad case of mites. This could be the cause of the URI and weakening Kelso. Kelso has been sick a long time. Rats don't make noise and your vet dismissed it far too fast, he should have been put on meds.
For now, I'd say get both males treated for mites and make sure Kelso is on really good meds. Take Iron out for extra play time with you, get him exercised a lot and tired out.

 

[dspch911]

Have you actually seen them fight? My first thought was mites too - what kind of bedding are they on? If its anything other than fleece are your freezing it for 72 hrs before using - if not you might have mites. You might want to try treating with kitten revolution and see if it helps.
I have all boys and I do have some that just torture their cage mates, but I have never had one pick on a sick cage mate. When I have misbehaving boys I get them neutered and within weeks harmony is restored. If that is an option for you, as long as you have the time to give him out time he can be in a small cage for a short period of time.
Hope you get it figured out and your boy gets better soon. Healing vibes from all of us. ills:

 

[Joanne]

I too had the same initial impression that it is mites. It would be very unlikely that Kelso's fur would be ripped out by Iron. It would more likely be a bite that abscesses. Scabs + hair loss + cranky rats usually = infestation of buggies. It's likely that Iron was infected when you brought him home, and then when Kelso got sick and his immune system tanked, the mites took over. Not all rats who are infected show signs. Or, they could have come in on bedding, paper litter, etc.
I would give the cage a thorough cleaning and treat with some Revolution, and see how things go.

 

[turkcm]

Thank you all so much for the helpful advice and healing vibes; your posts have given me hope for this site, yet. I have caught them just a couple of times fighting before separating them and I did see Iron come out with a hunk of Kelso's fur in his mouth. I'm using (and have always used) Carefresh bedding. Kelso is really looking good tonight. His paraphimosis has resolved and after the addition of doxy to his medication regimen, he's very peppy. I will look into the Revolution. I suppose a treatment wouldn't hurt, I just feel like I would have noticed him scratching more or the vet would have caught them. I guess I should have said when Kelso was younger, he was always noisy. His breathing was always clear, but he would kinda chirp whenever being held and cuddled or really excited to see me. He is definitely the friendliest rat I've ever had. Keep those good vibes coming! I'm hoping to see a good turn this weekend! Thanks again, all!

 

[lilspaz68]

You might want to add baytril to the doxy you are giving him, he sounds like he is a rather weak boy, with the mites, and paraphimosis. I would imagine that treating his constant low-grade respiratory infection might solve everything, with him not acting sick Iron might not harass him any longer

Revolution is awesome stuff, I would dose both boys at 6 mg/kg (you can use either kitten/puppy, cat or dog...just remember that dog is 120 mg/ml rather than 60 mg/ml)

If you are using carefresh, you might want to consider freezing it for 48 hours before using it as carefresh has been known to have been infested with mites and lice before. Its just an easy preventative

How long was he with Iron? How old is Iron, could he be hitting puberty/hormonal aggression and it just coincided with Kelso's not doing well? He still might need a neuter in his future in this case.