Boy troubles!! aaaand babies?

[shade]

Sorry for asking so many questions but i'm still a little new when it comes to rats.

Ok so I have multiple problems going on with my boys in the behavior department.

They're both still a bit squirmish when it comes to being held, but I think it's just them because they don't seem afraid, just adventurous.

One thing is that the boys seem to fight a lot but i'm not sure if the fights are serious. It really looks just like they're wrestling and squeaking and they do it often, mostly when you start playing with them with your hand in the cage. But the other day Adam, my boyfriend, said he saw our rat Quazar just sitting there chewing on our other male Ben. I thought it looked like he was grooming him but then they started squeaking at each other and adam made them stop. I just hope they wont start hurting each other really bad soon.

Another quite annoying problem is litter training. I set up a plastic tuppaware box in the cage with some aspen bedding in it and the boys decided it would be fun to dig all the bedding out of the box first, then poop all over the floor of the cage where the dug out bedding is (while grooming themselves in the litter box). How can I get them to stop digging it out? Adam suggested a water bottle to mist them whenever they start digging but I don't think that's good for them.

I'm also worried about my rat's Biting habbits that I mentioned before. We've been telling them No and squeeking and all that when they bite us and so far ben has pretty much gotten the idea but quazar still nibbles from time to time. Yesterday, however, I went to fill their food bowl and first ben didn't want me to take the bowl out. He grabbed on to it as I dragged it out of the cage (it was really cute) but when I went to put the bowl back into the cage, ben bit me really hard on my middle finger (just below the nail) and broke the skin. I yelled in pain at him and he darted off an hid but I was just completely shocked that he'd bite me that hard. What should I do?

And finally, sorry for all the questions (lots happened over spring break) lol. My boyfriend Adam gave into the rats and decided he wanted one to call his own. We were at a new pet store in the neighboring town and I feel this was one of the best pet stores I have seen in terms of rats. They have two 10 gallon aquariums for their baby dumbo rats (male/female) Although we had to help them a bit because the person who put them in there didn't know how to sex them very well because there were a couple males in the female tank. Buuut anyways, there was a beautiful champagne colored female in the back of the tank and she looked about 4 or 5 weeks old (comparing her to my 11 week old boys). I asked the lady if I could hold her and My heart melted. The dumbo babies were handled often so this little girl just sat contently in my hand and seemed to be very calm and interested in me. I showed her to adam and he instantly wanted her. Her name is Coccoa and right now she lives in a wire hampster cage in the kitchen of our house because the boys are still on their meds and the vet said to keep them in separate rooms. I told adam that before we put her in with the boys, we'd need to get her spayed and this is when adam brought up the idea of breeding her once before we spay her. He wants to breed her with my Rat ben who is a brown and white fancy rat. Based on colors, we figured the babies would turn out very beautiful. However, I wasn't sure if it would be a good idea to breed a fancy to a dumbo because i've never bred rats before. Soo would it be a good idea to breed her to my fancy boy in the future?

Thanks for reading my long-winded questions.

 

[SQ]

Breeding her would be a very, very bad idea.
Not only are the hundreds of rats in need of good homes but
if you do not know the genetic history of both rats going back for at least three or four generations you have no idea what genetic health problems they may be carrying. These are pet store (ie mill bred rats) not good, healthy breeder rats with good genetic backgrounds.

See:

http://jorats.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728
and
http://jorats.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t ... t=breeding

For litter box training do you use something different in their litter boxes than in the rest of the cage? May of us use unscented yesterdays news. My rats picked certain areas of the cage to use as a toilet, usually a corner or at the bottom of a ramp. I put litter boxes where they had decided to go and they quickly got the idea.
Except a few stubborn boys ...

 

[lindsayfawn]

I have all girl ratties and they caught on to litter training really quick. I use yesterday's news like SQ had mentioned and they go on that. At first they'll kinda poop around but if you just put it in the litter they'll catch on.

I'm with the others and would be against the breeding. SQ is right there are soooooo many rats out there that need homes, it'd be better to just adopt instead of bringing in more rats into the world. Especially where you don't know if there could be a genetic defect that could happen to the babies with out knowing the history of the breeding rats.

I'm sure there must be rat rescues around your area that you could adopt from.

good luck with the litter training!

 

[Willow Bean]

Very definately don't breed. What I have going on with Brenna was a total accident and not anything that I wanted to happen. In addition to the huge number of babies that you could end up with (sometimes 20+) and the difficulty of rehoming your babies you must consider all of the health risks. Your girl could die during birthing the babies. The genetics could cause any number of problems with the babies. Breeding causes an extreme increase in many rat cancers that would be much less likely to happen if the rat hadn't been bred. Babies cost major, major money and even more time. In addition, the sooner you get your girl spayed, the sooner you can give her some companions (the boys). Definately get her spayed ASAP so she can stop being alone and don't breed her.

 

[jorats]

Hi Shade, not much more I can add, I agree with Yang completely.

And as far as breeding a rat with unknown genetics is a very bad idea.

 

[lilspaz68]

First off, a dumbo is just ear placement, and a fancy rat means absolutely nothing, they are technically all fancy domesticated rats. Its actually the keeping of pet rats which is called The Rat Fancy.

The grooming and squeaking sounds like powergrooming. The groomer is the dominant rat or is trying to determine this fact. The groomee is the subordinate boy. Rats have a heirarchy, even if its only just 2 of them. The squeaking is more like "ooww, oww okay I give, you are the Alpha!!" and is a very normal thing. When you hear shrieking and chasing and one is obviously terrified and not playing thats when you should start to worry. No blood no foul is the golden rule.

Sounds like your baby boys are going thru the mouthy phase. Eeeps should help to remind them of their manners. Watch when you move things around in their cage. Do they get out often? If they don't they might be a bit cage aggressive...MINE! do not touch!

I guess I don't need to weigh in on the Don't Breed Your Petstore Rats debate, you all have it nicely covered.

What litter are you using to litter train your boys?

 

[shade]

Wow thanks to everyone for answering my questions. I didn't really think it was a good idea to breed Ben to Cocoa mainly because I have never raised baby rats before but now I also know about the whole genetics thing. My family breeds dogs so I guess it's basically the same thing "breeding mutts or rescues is bad and dogs with pedigrees are good to breed". Thank you so much and for the question about the bedding a litter I started out using this Rodent litter I found a petsmart for the litter box. It looked a lot like cat litter and had no dust but I was told it might not be good for them so I switched to aspen in the litter box. The rest of the cage isn't really lined with anything yet because I haven't been able to purchase good fleece linings yet But basically there's a hammock on the bottom level, A hideaway hut thing for birds on the second level and on the third there is a small box and the fourth has their big fleece blanket. When I started litter training, I took all the poops and put it in the box to show them that was where they had to go but they didn't care and kept digging it all out.

And I definitely will not be breeding my baby girl. Adam may be disappointed but it's for the best.

 

[Willow Bean]

:cheer: :cheer: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :cheer: :cheer:
That's great to hear!! Stick in there with the litter training, they will learn eventually. With a big cage you might want to add another litter box or two. Also, make sure the litter box is tall enough that it is difficult to dig the aspen out. It will discourage the fun ^_^ Moosh was a big "aspen pusher" and would shove it all out as soon as I put him in the cage. I quickly graduated to a rectangle storage container. Remember that if you clean out the litter box daily or every other day you won't need much aspen in the bottom. Just enough to line the bottom and make it easy to clean. ^_^

 

[lilspaz68]

Try Yesterdays News in the litter pans it seems to encourage them to poop there more than most and its heavier so may not be kicked out as much as aspen.