bothering you guys again... Pregnant? UPDATE - fluid.

[TheHermit]

Maria's pear-pudge got bigger overnight. It looked more enlarged the other day and I tried to feel around when I lifted her in her crinkle tunnel (only way to get her out to socialize) and held her, but that's a little difficult to do.
She's been aggressive towards us if she's in her cage, but only fearful of us when she's out. She was only aggressive towards the other girls when they tried to mount her and was otherwise sitting there and boggling while they just ran around her - just having other rats that close made her so happy, it breaks my heart that they're too playful for her liking at the same time... she hurt Lilly and Maggie pretty bad.
She still uses her wheel, and I'm not sure if that means she isn't preggers because I may just be too attached to the notion that pregnant women shouldn't exercise that vigorously :giggle:
However I gave them tissue paper to play with and she nested with it right away. That was two days ago. I checked her this morning and her pear-shape had more bulge to it, and I cut up a spare t-shirt and put the scraps in, in the last five minutes she's shoved some against the wall of the cage and took some to her 'nest' (crinkle tunnel). I'm not sure if she's just making a lovely place to call her own, or if she's really nesting.... she kinda looked offended when I put the shirt scraps in. She moves stuff around in there very often and it's easy to hear when she's doing it because of the crinkle and the tissue paper is the wrapping kind, so that makes noise too.
She also eats almost as much in one day as the trio does, but they're all small rats and she's pretty large. She lost weight at first but now she's even more pear-shaped then when I first got her. Haven't seen her nipples yet but I'm checking those after posting this if she'll let me.

I've had her 3 weeks this Thursday - should she be popping this week/weekend if she IS pregnant? And after four weeks are we in the clear? Is there any way to tell other than weighing her? I can run out and get a scale after school today if my funds allow it. Once work/school started again I completely forgot about weighing her until I noticed how big her belly's gotten, so all I can go off is the above information atm.
A million questions time. And no, Google didn't give me enough info to satisfy me, I need direct voices of experience.
How soon to popping-time would she start nesting? Could her weight gain be from being more comfortable in her new environment? IF she was gaining weight from veggies/banana puffs/lab blocks, shouldn't it be everywhere and not just her belly? And how small/large should her pear-belly be if she IS pregnant? I've seen pics with ratties with some big looking tummies, but I have no way of holding her the same way to check - she just doesn't trust us yet. Should I try my best to hold her and feel her belly or would that just be too much stress this late? She gets so distressed when we try to pick her up we just haven't tried since moving her between cages.

I tried not to make this as long as I usually do, I rather failed.

:wallbang: I'm really sorry I bombard you guys with silly questions all the time, some of it must seem like common sense to you

 

[lilspaz68]

If you mean Thursday today is 3 weeks? You only have a couple more days to wait for the all-clear normal gestation is 21-23 days. Poor Maria.

 

[TheHermit]

If you mean Thursday today is 3 weeks? You only have a couple more days to wait for the all-clear normal gestation is 21-23 days. Poor Maria.

Oh, yeah - school makes the actual days blur by, was convinced today was Wednesday. That's good then, I hope the sudden visible increase in weight is... anything but illness and pregnancy.
But I just saw her nipples and she was only leaning on the door of the cage, half stretched out - they are visible and seem larger than normal... my new love has had so much commotion in the last month, I just want her to be comfy and happy for the rest of her life and end this roller coaster ride she's on.

 

[jorats]

She should be nesting right now... And you might even be able to feel the bubs at this point.

 

[EDK]

I assume this isn't a wanted pregnancy or it was unpredicted and you need to prep? I dont know much about ratty pregnancy but i hope all goes well for you and her and she gets more comfortable in her surroundings

 

[TheHermit]

I don't think she's pregnant anymore hehe. Sorry for the delay in update, school & work took over most of my free time.
I had the girls out and took Maria out to change her blankets (they started to look awful and I didn't want potential bubs to be born in that) and Penny came to see Maria on the bed and Maria struck the "TAKE ME AS I AM" pose and wiggled her ears - so unless pregnant rats are in heat before birth, I'm hoping that is the all-clear.
Also I have never seen the ear-wiggle before, most adorable thing to entice a mate I've ever seen.

 

[jorats]

That's a relief.

 

[crumbilina]

Oh yay!!!!

Glad to hear that she's not expecting little bubbers.

Give her a kiss.... or whatever she will tolerate from me and my crew

 

[TheHermit]

Maria's belly has swollen more since I thought I ruled out pregnancy. It's more swollen to one side than the other, though the bulge underneath is still the same. I tried to feel it - she actually let me reach in to her cage and touch her, not just petting but prodding her belly! - and I couldn't tell if what I was feeling was her thigh or the bulge on that side because it was hard. This morning when I felt her tummy while we were on the bed, it was soft.
I've done a little research and am now actually hoping more swollen on one side tummies and hardening of the tummy over a few hours are still symptoms of late pregnancy. I'm not naive enough to think that her gestation would take this long, but if she has a tumor that is that far inside that her belly felt squishy until tonight... I'm just not ready to have to let go of her so early, only having her for a month. Even with all her sass she's grown on me a lot, and apparently I've grown on her, letting me touch her inside the cage without watching my hand so carefully. I know her quality of life would still be good or OK for a while, but she's already waddling and I don't know how long rats live having to drag a mass around.
Could megacolon be the culprit? She's had a bigger belly this whole time but it's never been this big, and it's only gotten bigger over the last few days, and only swelled to one side since last night, and might be hard on that one side (she was so bunched up I just couldn't tell). She's dragged material she likes to sleep with in her tunnel to her litter bin, which she's been sleeping in the last two days.
I never removed the shelf from her half of the CN - she's usually uses the ladder but used to climb on the side bars and jump down. Could she have fallen and hurt the bubs/shifted them somehow? I would feel terrible if that were the case but I find it unlikely since I've only felt a squishy tummy this whole time and no lumps.

Currently she seems sleepy, usually when I come to see her she'll come right out of where she was sleeping and up to the door of the cage, and run around hiding from me when I open the door. Tonight she just sat in her litter bin and let me pet her, then crawled out to another corner and sat there, got a little irritated when I prodded her tummy and moved only a few inches away when she usually goes to an entirely different area. Sleepy isn't really the word I guess - she seemed like she had rat depression, like how rats act when they lose a cagemate, and the food in her bowl hasn't been touched since this morning though she did eat the peas I gave out before leaving for school at 11 AM. She isn't too puffed up but she doesn't want to move around much when this morning she was all perky and happy to be out running around.
I have no idea what to make of any of this. Pics coming as soon as I can take them, I'm not sure if I'll be able to get one with me holding her to show you better but I'll try.

 

[crumbilina]

Do you have a vet you can take her to?

 

[victoria]

I second what Jenny said, she needs to see a vet. In theory, she could be pregnant if she gave birth less than a month ago (who knows where the babies would be) and got pregnant immediately afterward. It's more likely she's got some sort of infection or she miscarried a litter that she hasn't vacated and it's becoming toxic to her now. It could be a fast growing tumour as well, but I think that's less likely.

If you can, get her to Dr. Munn. I know he's far from you, but he is the most experienced and if she needs surgery, he'll know right away and he's a very good surgeon. (Plus, you will likely pay much less at his clinic than elsewhere for a situation like this.)

 

[TheHermit]

oh %&$#. :cry: I don't know what to do then. Dr Munn is far, as much as I'd like to take her, and I wouldn't have a ride as my friend that drives has the same classes and I'd have to skip, I can't afford to call in to work unless I have to take an appointment on Thursday. The last vet I visited was in Mississauga, and she referred me to a new clinic in my town and not too far by cab but I have no idea if they treat rats. Looking up the number.
If it's shady in any way I'll find my way to Dr Munn somehow, even if taking a cab is absurd. I assume I need to get her to someone asap?

 

[lilspaz68]

I found this

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6552&p=91369&hilit=burloak#p91369

 

[TheHermit]

Thank you lilspaz I might have had to transit it, I can actually get to Greenwood sooner than Burloak, but the difference in cab fare according to TaxiMe is a bit shocking and favors Burloak, and I'd rather do a sure thing that's a smooth ride than panic to find one.
That's actually a lot of relief come to think of it. Thank you so much! :bow:

 

[TheHermit]

Got back from the vet around 5 (was immediately kidnapped by the boyfriend's grandparents), had a small x-ray done. Nothing felt by the vet, but there is definitely fluid in her stomach. Because of Maria's behavior a heart condition has been ruled out - sometimes when one part of the heart has a complication, fluid builds up in the upper body, and if it's the other part it builds up in the lower half, but since she uses her wheel and is active and a hearty eater, apparently she doesn't fit the bill. So it's either a leaking tumor or something to do with her uterus because she's had a litter before. Hoping for the uterus thing to be quite honest, but her quality of life is only increasing the more social and comfortable she becomes. Vet simply said the process of finding out precisely what was causing it and trying to manage it when she's already happy as is would be redundant to her quality of life and to come back to pick up ("Lassex?") if her tummy suddenly swells a lot to draw out the fluid. She also said this condition would last the rest of her life, so there's no real time to expect her to swell and even the chance that she never will.
So no babies, no concrete diagnosis but a pretty happy albeit maladjusted rat.

 

[mamarat]

Did your vet talk about spaying her? I had a girl who had many litters and would become bloated once in a while but after her spay she was okay. Good luck with your sweetie.

 

[crumbilina]

Glad to hear that everything is ok. Hopefully she will continue to warm up to you

Did you go to the Burloak clinic? How was it?

 

[TheHermit]

Did you go to the Burloak clinic? How was it?

Yes I did, they were very friendly! Handled her well, they knew how to keep gentle hold of a wiggly rat.
And the vet I saw didn't talk about spaying her, but I'm keeping that in mind mamarat. When I recover some funds it couldn't hurt to try and get them all spayed, actually, though I'm terrified of losing them under anesthetic when they're still in their prime.

 

[crumbilina]

How is Maria doing lately?