biting rat. :/

[cheyenneobvious]

We adopted a cute little rat from kajiji about a month ago. She is 4 months old (so the lady said) and originally came from the local collage as a test rat. She bit me right off the bat, hard enough to draw blood. My fiance has bonded with her and we thought everything was okay.. but after a month of being okay she bit him too.. She is a lone rat but only because she attacked princess, my 2 month old, and drew blood (there was blood all over their sleeping hammock and their toilet paper roll) im really running out of ideas on how to train her, or make her happy? I'm kind of scared of her, and now so is my fiance.

I just kind of want your guys' advice on what to do next? im a little lost here now. I feel bad that she is alone, and i know we need to spend extra time with her, but how do we do that when we are getting bitten and scared of her? Were starting to think we should just give her to a better home and that we are failing as rattie parents

 

[jorats]

This will be a tough one... rats that come from colleges and such have already had such a hard start at life, it's pretty much ingrained in them to be fearful so they bite and ask questions later.
You could try having her spayed but there's no guarantee that it will work.
She needs lots and lots of extra socializing but that will be hard to do if you are scared to go near her. What about if you wore gloves?
When you put her with the other rat, did you follow proper intro steps?

 

[cheyenneobvious]

This will be a tough one... rats that come from colleges and such have already had such a hard start at life, it's pretty much ingrained in them to be fearful so they bite and ask questions later.
You could try having her spayed but there's no guarantee that it will work.
She needs lots and lots of extra socializing but that will be hard to do if you are scared to go near her. What about if you wore gloves?
When you put her with the other rat, did you follow proper intro steps?

yes i made sure i read up on everything i could before i started the process and fallowed it step by step very closely, although, she was our first intro though.. maybe i could have slipped up? she was doing fine for a full month in there with our other girls until just now. she seems to hate people AND other rats. she is just always unhappy and i feel horrible because of it. i feel like IM now the abuser she has had in the past and she doesnt deserve to be with me

we have a CN on the way, so hopefully when it gets here and she has more room than im sure she has ever seen before she will be less nippy and upset? I just kind of wanted some advice until it comes, and after it comes i guess?
i dont even know anymore. im so confused with her at this point. shes hot and cold.

 

[jorats]

Do you notice a cycle to her behavior? Some people have noticed when their rats go into heat which is usually every 4 to 5 days, they can become a little more aggressive.

 

[cheyenneobvious]

to be honest i wasnt even watching.
i really dont know what to do with her... should i start the introduction process again? or just leave her as a lone rat?

 

[jorats]

I would start intros all over again. Sometimes rats that have behavioral problems learn from other rats. This would be very good for your girl to see and learn from the others that mom is not a bad person.

 

[Fidget]

That's actually a really new one on me. Usually the problem is with other rats or people, not both. Usually the biting starts in the beginning and continues or stops or starts unexpectedly in a previously 'safe' kid. Odd it should stop then recur. All those things I think us Rat-Shackers would have plenty ideas to offer.
This is odd I think unless it's a combination of an initial problem that got fixed with her getting comfortable, and then a new problem? Not likely with a young'un tho.
When I hear of a previously unbitey-unnasty kid suddenly or gradually becoming bitey or nasty my 1st thought is pain. Something inside you are not aware of.
2nd is angst but you'd expect that would come from a change and you'd have pinpointed it to that.
3rd is a change in the brain like a tumor. Sure no kid that young should be having a PT and I think it's safe to rule that out.

If you can't connect it to any changes in her environment then I dunno? Could hormones be the cause at 4 months?
'm so sorry, it's awful when you don't know what to do for a kid, and especially when you become afraid of them. I can hear your love. Unless a spay is a good option (waiting for those that know better than me) then if you don't know what to do there is no shame in telling her story and asking someone with experience - or can keep her alone to take her. This is a good place to ask, good people. Some humans just don't fit in and can't be dealt with except under special care. We have to expect some animals are like that too. Not everyone has the ability/time/setup to deal with a special needs kid. Better to ask for someone who can than deprive you or the kid of some life.

 

[cheyenneobvious]

i will try the intros again but maybe slower this time?
i was talking to someone in the chat and they said i should be more cautious with her because she is, pretty much, a lab rat and all she knows is bad from people hands.

i just dont want to harm my other 3 girls trying to fix angels issues.

maybe one at a time intros would be better before i introduce the whole group? anyone have any ideas on that one?

 

[jorats]

Some people prefer one on one intros. I don't like it because the rats need to settle the hierarchy and know where all the rats position is be it alpha, beta, omega and this can't be done unless they are all together. But, if you feel more comfortable with one on one, definitely give it a try.
There is never a one rule only for intros. You do what you can with what you've got and if that doesn't work, you have to try something else. All rats have different needs at different times... that's what is so great about us, we can change and adapt to their needs as well.

 

[cheyenneobvious]

best news ever!
we introduced the girls yesterday and everything went awesome. we have all 4 rats in one cage now and they are all doing great. they are all sleeping together and no conflicts have arrived since the ranking was over.

hopefully angel wont get weird again and get snappy and bite after a month.

although, we will be getting a bigger cage sometime this week ( eeee CN is going to be in ) will that change how she is acting once they have more space? will it be for the better, or for the worst?

 

[Moon]

The general rule of thumb is, the more space they have, the better. Even very bonded rats like to get away from eachother.

 

[Fidget]

I'm so happy for you & Angel that intros have gone so well and she and her new buds are comfy with each other!!! I guess you can't have any certain comfort after her attack on Princess, but hopefully she's found her comfort zone now and that's all in the past.

I had a lone girl (Nellie) who was not bitey but very scared of me and everything. Giving her cagemates made all the difference for her, she remained nervous of me most of her life but she was happy with her cagemates and her life with them. She was mom, protecter & teacher to every new kid who came.
I had her 29 months and in her last days she actually would repeatedly jump from their space to the floor (a distance that kept them from doing that) and come find me and snuggle up to me...

You just never know with some of these kids from day 1 to day last.... Best we can do is find them the life they are happy in. Hopefully this is it for your Angel (lol at the name 'Angel' - I had one mis-named that (lol), another story for another day)

Congrats are in order today! Kisses to your Angel.

 

[jorats]

That's great news!
Even if Angel goes off a little, don't remove her right away, wait and see if they can settle it. Unless of course there's gashes and cuts.

 

[cheyenneobvious]

angel and princess seem to still have some resistance, but they are doing great still. they dont sleep together, but maybe that will come in time.

we named her angel because when we got her she was so beaten down and sad looking. the people who had her didnt even name her. they called her "rat" and she was just living a horrible life. we were going to name her hope cause she has hope for the future (thats the name our latest got) but we went with angel because she was going to be our little angel. i hope we didnt misname her

 

[jorats]

Aww... she's precious, that's for sure. Keep them together and I bet they will work it out. Sometimes they will have scuffles but that's all normal too.

 

[JinX]

I had a lone girl (Nellie) who was not bitey but very scared of me and everything. Giving her cagemates made all the difference for her, she remained nervous of me most of her life but she was happy with her cagemates and her life with them. She was mom, protecter & teacher to every new kid who came.
I had her 29 months and in her last days she actually would repeatedly jump from their space to the floor (a distance that kept them from doing that) and come find me and snuggle up to me...

I have a story like that as well.
I had a lonely girl named Cujo (she was a biter so the name fitted her well ) The petstore gave her to me, they didnt know what to do with her, she was brought back 3 times, she was very scared of people. They knew we had rats so they said please give her a chance...so cujo went with us.
At the time we had only male rats so Cujo was on her own for a while. I just sat down at the cage and talked to her for weeks, not trying to touch her. She moved to a friend of mine who had female rats. Cujo didnt like them. In the few weeks she lived there, my friend had teached her to climb in a pet carrier so she could clean her cage.
Cujo came back to us. At the time we had one male (Paddo) who was neutered because he didnt like the other boys. After the neuter he still couldnt get along with them so we gave him one last chance...cujo.
We put Paddo and Cujo together and in about an hour they were buddies for life. They were the cutest couple ever, a tiny black girl and a huge black guy.
It took over a year before i could touch Cujo, and still she was very nervous. When i had her for 1,5 years i picked her up for the first time. She didnt like it but she let me.
When she was about two years her buddy Paddo died. We introduced her to Samba (another neutered male who lived with my boys) and that went ok, not what she had with Paddo but she accepted him.
After 2 months i found Cujo laying in her cage. I thought she was dead. If she was i would have burried her and put samba back with his friends, and that would be it. I never bonded with her, she had everything she needed and it was ok.
But Cujo was still alive! I picked her up, tried to give her some water. That was the first time I could hold her without her being nervous. She was on my lap for an hour, loving the attention she got, she trusted me completely for the first time in her life. And she died in my arms. It was weird, it was sad she died, but it was the most wonderfull thing she gave me. It made it all worth, all the time i spend trying to get her to trust me. And in that last hour we bonded and she'll always be in my heart. Rats can change, just have lots and lots of patience, trust me its worth it :wink:

Paddo on the right with the love of his life Cujo on the left :heart:

Good luck with Angel, i hope she'll trust you one day like Cujo did with me :wink:

 

[cheyenneobvious]

i have them right beside my bed so i can hear them now.
as soon as they start to even squeak a little bit, im up and looking to see whats going on lol

i get my CN TOMORROW!!!

 

[cheyenneobvious]

I had a lone girl (Nellie) who was not bitey but very scared of me and everything. Giving her cagemates made all the difference for her, she remained nervous of me most of her life but she was happy with her cagemates and her life with them. She was mom, protecter & teacher to every new kid who came.
I had her 29 months and in her last days she actually would repeatedly jump from their space to the floor (a distance that kept them from doing that) and come find me and snuggle up to me...

I have a story like that as well.
I had a lonely girl named Cujo (she was a biter so the name fitted her well ) The petstore gave her to me, they didnt know what to do with her, she was brought back 3 times, she was very scared of people. They knew we had rats so they said please give her a chance...so cujo went with us.
At the time we had only male rats so Cujo was on her own for a while. I just sat down at the cage and talked to her for weeks, not trying to touch her. She moved to a friend of mine who had female rats. Cujo didnt like them. In the few weeks she lived there, my friend had teached her to climb in a pet carrier so she could clean her cage.
Cujo came back to us. At the time we had one male (Paddo) who was neutered because he didnt like the other boys. After the neuter he still couldnt get along with them so we gave him one last chance...cujo.
We put Paddo and Cujo together and in about an hour they were buddies for life. They were the cutest couple ever, a tiny black girl and a huge black guy.
It took over a year before i could touch Cujo, and still she was very nervous. When i had her for 1,5 years i picked her up for the first time. She didnt like it but she let me.
When she was about two years her buddy Paddo died. We introduced her to Samba (another neutered male who lived with my boys) and that went ok, not what she had with Paddo but she accepted him.
After 2 months i found Cujo laying in her cage. I thought she was dead. If she was i would have burried her and put samba back with his friends, and that would be it. I never bonded with her, she had everything she needed and it was ok.
But Cujo was still alive! I picked her up, tried to give her some water. That was the first time I could hold her without her being nervous. She was on my lap for an hour, loving the attention she got, she trusted me completely for the first time in her life. And she died in my arms. It was weird, it was sad she died, but it was the most wonderfull thing she gave me. It made it all worth, all the time i spend trying to get her to trust me. And in that last hour we bonded and she'll always be in my heart. Rats can change, just have lots and lots of patience, trust me its worth it :wink:

Paddo on the right with the love of his life Cujo on the left :heart:

Good luck with Angel, i hope she'll trust you one day like Cujo did with me :wink:

aww your story brought tears to my eyes !
angel seems to be coming around. we are able to take her out.. but only if its to play with the other rats.
she has formed a bond with the rats so now its not her against the world at least.

 

[Fidget]

So you have a Hope & an Angel together. I got my Hope Apr30/02, and my Angel May2/02.
Angel went missing May 26, just a baby, I agonized day & night hunting & listening for her, tore the apartment totally apart twice, and had finally given up when I found her in my bedside drawer 10 days later (lol -so much for her being an 'Angel').
I hope your Angel's stress-you-out is past and she becomes as sweet as mine did

She was on my lap for an hour, loving the attention she got, she trusted me completely for the first time in her life. And she died in my arms. It was weird, it was sad she died, but it was the most wonderfull thing she gave me. It made it all worth, all the time i spend trying to get her to trust me. And in that last hour we bonded and she'll always be in my heart. Rats can change, just have lots and lots of patience, trust me its worth it :wink:

Aww, JinX, that's exactly what I'm talking about - that kid who you give it all to and get nothing from, til one day you give so little and get their lifetime's worth of love for you all at once and it's overwhelming! The love earned is the sweetest! so many of us know. (kisses to mamarat's Rogue)