Biting and aggressive "play" ?

[jrowe47]

One rat is biting the other - over the last two days, the smaller rat has gotten a bite on the tail, and now a bite on his back leg. Both bled, but neither are very bad - more of a hard nip than anything else. This happens while the larger rat chases the smaller one, who makes frightened squeaking sounds.

This only happens when they think I can't see, and when I'm in the room, the big one (Petyr) will behave well.

Could it be that Petyr is just bored and needs more space or toys? Should I separate them while the smaller one recuperates? I really don't want him getting more tail injuries.

I'm also thinking it's prime time to get them neutered. They're just past 12 weeks old,

 

[jorats]

They are both 12 weeks old? At that age, it's uncommon for it to be a bully situation unless they are early. I'd definitely get them neutered.
Also, you mentioned more space, are they in a small cage?
I wouldn't separate, unless the wounds are very severe.

 

[jrowe47]

I'm almost certain theyre the same age, but they could be 16 weeks or so. And it looks like Petyr, the larger aggressive one, might be early, while Varys hasnt gotten a growth spurt yet. That, or Petyr isnt letting Varys eat unless I'm there. I've moved their cage, which is this one, to my bedroom today, so that way I'll be with them more often.

The wounds aren't severe. The tail bite is a small puncture on both sides of the tail, not all the way through, and the leg bite is the same - Petyr was nipping Varys while chasing him around the cage.

edit:
I just put Varys back in the cage, and Petyr cornered him, started grooming, and then took out a tuft of fur, which made Varys squeal and run away. I have some chew toys in there, but took out the wheel because it's got exposed wires.

 

[jorats]

The link didn't work for me, can you try again?

 

[SQ]

Link does not go to a cage

 

[GrayLightNewDay]

It goes to a cage for me! It's the All Living Things® Luxury Rat Pet Home.

 

[jrowe47]

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.j ... Id=4470997 - who knows what type of regional filters and link redirects can happen. Anyway, according to the rat cage calculator, it says it should handle up to 4 rats - I have a tshirt on two levels and their litterpan on the bottom floor. I got some more toys for them today and some chewsticks. They seemed calmer today, and I'm cleaning their cage tonight, so they'll get some extended free range time. Both wounds look clean, and varys slept on petyr's head earlier today with no sign of any stress from either of them.

 

[jorats]

I did do a google search for it and it's definitely fine for two rats. So that shouldn't be the issue.
So I'd definitely do a neuter.

 

[jrowe47]

Time to start searching for a good rat doc, then Thanks, jorats, everyone!

 

[jrowe47]

So after cage cleaning I put them back in, and Petyr went to Varys, stretched out below him, and Varys started grooming. After about 30 seconds or so, Petyr flipped out and started chasing a screaming Varys around the cage. I reached in, scooped Petyr out, and petted him for a few moments, then put him on the next shelf up from Varys. I started petting him again and noticed blood on my hands - and when I checked out Petyr completely, 3 of his claws, on 3 feet, are broken and bloody. I think he snagged them on something while chasing his brother.

I'm thinking Varys accidentally bumped one of Petyr's tender feet, which made him defensive, and sparked the fight. And that would also explain the abject terror Varys was displaying as he streaked around the cage. Neither of them made any attempt to bite me when i separated them, and it took Varys a good 5 minutes or so of perching on the top level and staring at his brother before he calmed down.

I'm thinking that's probably what started the fights in the first place, and I just missed checking the claws. The toes look intact, they just look like the claws are jammed. I can only imagine how sensitive that must be.

I'll see if I can take them in to get neutered on saturday. I found a reputable rat doctor thats only 20 minutes away, and he charges really reasonable rats.

 

[jorats]

It sound like Petyr's the only one that needs to be done. He's the alpha and honestly, even with his toes like that, he should not have ran after his brother in such an aggressive manner. Rats who are hurt will run in the other direction to hide and lick their wounds.

 

[Mk2]

If the rat is over looking a bleeding wound to full out attack/chase the other -who isn't even a stranger to him mind you- he must have some hormonal issues. Go buy some supplies to separate the cage in half. See if them being in close quarters but zero physical contact for several days will help the emotions. It will also allow the big guy to heal up while you seek attention.

Good luck please post up your conclusions, I hope everything turns out OK!

 

[jrowe47]

Taking them in on Monday for neutering. In the meantime, I've given them more chew sticks, and put a whole roll of toilet paper and a new hammock. After much chewing and pushing around, they discovered they could put the roll on its side, and pull *LOTS* of paper. And then proudly drag around a big wad of it all over the cage.

So far, no new fights, although Petyr is always sidling and doing the dominance thing.