Beryl's Gone :(

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fenshae

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
1,124
Location
Las Cruces, NM
Noticed Beryl was acting a little out of sorts during out time, he was exhibiting some pain symptoms so I scooped him up and discovered a fairly small lesion on his heel, probably/definitely bumblefoot.

Anyway, problem is that I was trying to start treatment and he freaked out . He's one of my two remaining hoarding rescue boys and they're all still kind of spazzy about being handled, but not normally this bad. He'll happily sit on the bed and let me pet him, but when I picked him up and tried get to his paw/tail he started thrashing and gasping. He doesn't seem to have any breathing problems normally -- I haven't witnessed him with any poryphin, he doesn't sneeze or have any URI symptoms when he's on the bed/in the cage -- but as soon as he gets stressed he starts open-mouth gasping (it makes a little "pop" noise when he does it) and after a little bit of thrashing he goes totally still except for the gasping. I left him in a quiet room in a carrier at that point and he recovered from the gasping attack, but I was too scared to try again with getting at the bumble.

This is exactly what Locke acted like before he died (I was cleaning out an abscess and Locke thrashed, did the open-mouth gasping thing, went still and then died, I'm thinking it was a heart attack). I'm scared if I push it that he might have a heart attack also, but I don't think the bumble is going to go away on its own.

Any suggestions on non-invasive ways to go about treating this? He's a champ about taking meds so I've been giving him ibuprofen to manage pain/swelling, and I've got him in a cage with bedding I'm changing twice a day, but I don't know what to do with the lesion itself.
 
What does your vet think? If h/she sees signs of possible heart problems maybe you could do a trial of an ACE-inhibitor to see if that helps his heart.

I have no experience with rats gasping when being handled. I wonder if Locke and this rat were both experiencing a lot of pain? But you can get a better guess from one of the ratty experts.
 
An antibiotic such as clavamox may help to clean up the bumble foot, along with keeping the cage extra clean.

You can try meds to see if it is his heart.
 
For the bumblefoot, you could pad down the cage really well and get him on Bactrim or Clavamox as suggested by SQ. I wouldn't do any soaking if he reacts that badly.
 
Haven't been able to get into the vet yet on account of holiday weekend. I've been keeping a close eye on him, he's still acting pretty normal with the other rats at least. I've got him in my backup cage with Einstein and Amadeus and they're both very gentle so he doesn't have to worry about bullying.

Does anybody have any experience with the thrashing/gasping thing? the only other time I've seen that happen was with Locke.
 
I've seen that plenty of times when my rats are in full panic mode due to reduced lung capacity. Has he seen the vet for his lungs?
I did have a rat who would panic for unknown reasons and would end up into the gasping as well. He was not sick but did become sick due to his high stress I would think.
 
A bit of encouraging news. Had him out for over an hour today, just chilling with me on the couch. He let me do a cleaning + neosporin with a minimum of fussing afterwards...well, sure, he tried to climb onto my head to get away, but at least no full-on panic. I'll swing by walgreens for some epsom salts to try the salt compresses. Or I might try the blu-kote if that's the recommendation? Heck, I might try both.

Will call the vet on Monday to see what their schedule looks like. Hoping that he might just have some lung issues, not heart. If he DOES have heart problems, what medication would I try him on?
 
For heart, I believe people start with lasix to see if it is heart related. If there's an improvement then they get Enalapril along with the lasix.
 
For heart, test dose with enalapril (0.25 mg/Ib or 0.25 mg/454.4g, twice a day). If it helps, then atenolol (1 mg/Ib or 1 mg/454.4 g, twice a day) and lasix (as needed) are added.
 
Rats sure are keeping me busy lately between feeding the babies and having to tend to Beryl and his cage. Jeebus. Over the weekend he's looking a bit worse for wear. He's looking very rough-coated and he keeps doing the "hanging his head over a ledge" thing. Maybe it is his lungs. It's crept up on me if so, I never caught him sneezing or doing the hiccup thing before and he's still not, but I held him up to my ear and -something- in his chest is sounding congested or sort of....squishy. hard to describe exactly.

Anyway, calling the vet tomorrow. Hopefully they can get him in early.
 
blarg. First appointment I could get is Friday. I'll keep calling to see if there's any cancellations that crop up. Hope Beryl holds out.
 
Congestive heart failure can cause fluid to accumulate in his lungs, so he can be wheezy from lung problems, or from heart problems. Check also for things like a low tolerance to exercise, and if he's breathing fast while at rest. Check the colour of his extremities - they should be pink. Blue (cyanotic) indicates oxygen is not getting into his blood stream (heart or lung). White indicates the blood is not getting moved around the body (heart/shock/blood loss). Hopefully this is something that the vet can get under control with the right medications. I'd call the vet and get them to put you on the short notice list.
 
Oh man Joanne that's sounding just like him. He doesn't move around much when he's out, and he breathes with his mouth open most of the time now. I just tried to get a look at his feet in comparison with Einstein's feet and they do look paler/greyish. Not blue. But pale. blah.

Gonna call the vet again in the AM to see if they can possibly squeeze him in any earlier.

In the meanwhile is there ANY sort of home remedy/otc thing for CHF which this is looking more and more like?
 
I don't know of any, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. I would make sure that he has to expend as little effort as possible, ie make sure the water and his food is near by, and maybe give him some easy things to eat, that he can lick up. Give him places to sleep on the floor, so he doesn't have to climb up into a hammock. Keep pestering your vet to get in sooner. Good luck!
 
oh jeez. :( Poor Beryl. I had him out for cuddles for just a few minutes today but being held was stressing him out majorly so I put him back. I read somewhere that having their movement restricted when they have a hard time breathing causes them to panic even more so I think that's what's going on there. I'll put up the cats later and let him chill on the couch with us tonight I think. Poor darling. All my doubts about it being CHF are gone -- he's doing the water retention thing now, where he's thin but also feeling kind of...squishy?...especially around the face area. that's classic heart problem stuff right?

David's taking this one really hard. Beryl is his heart rat and he's feeling super guilty now for not having spent more time with him -- you know how it goes, the same thing I think everyone does every time somebody becomes suddenly sick. He doesn't want to come with me on Friday because he just doesn't think he can handle it :( But his instruction is to get a prognosis and that if it doesn't sound promising to go ahead and just have him PTS while we're there. And I respect that.

Anybody with CHF experience want to weigh in on the quality of life issue? I know you can't cure it, but how long can you get with effective treatment, how hard is it go get the right combo of drugs, how much relief will they get, can they live a normal life? I just want to be armed with facts so I can make as rational of a decision as possible on Friday.

Truth be told I'm really impressed with how well Beryl is coping. He's gotten really close with Amadeus throughout all this, they're pretty inseparable right now and I'm glad because he needs a friend since the human contact thing is very touch-and-go with him right now.
 
Yes, it's true when holding down a rat in a panic could actually kill him. So if handling them stresses them out then it's best to let them come to you.
I have heard a few people say that once on meds for CHF, rats are much more comfortable and quite happy.
It's going to be a hard decision for you... do what your heart tells you. ((hugs))
 
I don't know what to tell you, but I hope your vet may be able to shed a bit more light on the situation and help you make the best decision for mister Beryl. I will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers. :hugs:
 

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