Are dominance issues common?

[thinking]

I've got three males on their way. All from the same litter. What can I expect concerning dominance and aggression behaviours? If there are issues, how much do I intervene as opposed to letting them work things out themselves?

If in the future we decided to get more, would adding more males to the group bring on a greater possibility of fighting than adding a spayed female?

I am here trying to educate myself on all things rat before I bring my babies home and you all have me already taking 1 more than I intended and looking ahead to adding more!

 

[hopefloats]

Not always. I have a group of 8 boys, who have bickering but hat is common in colonies. I have my boys who cannot be intro'd well i wont intro them to others Rats like to pin and groom each other. My girls who have been together for ages still do it. Just because. My spayed girls are the biggest pains in my boys butts. They even annoy the other girls, but they are 11 rats and have been together since april mostly, happy as a lark most of the time.

Intro's is where you have to watch it. Slow and scary with any of them. Most of the time they go smooth but boys will be boys. I prefer mixed sex groups over single sex any day. They are more fun to watch.

 

[jorats]

Dominance issues are very common, aggression issues are not.
Every family has to decide who's in charge, that's normal and not a reason to intervene. Sometimes rats seem to be fighting when in fact they are playing. The only time you should intervene is if the rat is over 5 months old because generally anything before that age is play play play and if the rats are getting seriously cut up. Also if you have a rat who is always petrified in the cage, then it's time to intervene. But there's an easy fix. Neuter. Neuter removes all stress and keeps the male happy and healthy.
Adding spayed female(s) is the best idea. A mixed colony is balanced and seem to harmonize much faster.

 

[thinking]

I'll be honest Jorat and say that though females sound wonderful for their curiousity and energy levels, I'm so scared of the tumors (even though a spayed female has less chance).

In your honest (non-enabling :laugh4: ) opinion, would you have a spayed female in with three boys or just leave the group as three male litter mates? Three boys sounds good to me but if adding a spayed female would mellow everyone out, then maybe I should do that??

If you did, I'm guessing it would be best to introduce a young female to the young boys close to the same date they all come home so that they grow up together?

We went from one rat, learning that wasn't a good idea, to two rats. Then I couldn't leave the last boy in the litter and I needed one, so three. I haven't even got these guys home yet! I would like to start of as positively as I can so that I don't "wish I had known and done that initially".

 

[jorats]

These guys are all together from the same litter, if they are going into a nice big cage, then no. I'd just have those three boys.

 

[rhapsody]

Three boys sounds good to me but if adding a spayed female would mellow everyone out, then maybe I should do that??

My spayed girl had lived with three boys. Then I lost one of the boys and she's still with the other two. Hehe, she's a spitfire and does not contribute to any "mellowness" in the cage. She's always instigating things.

 

[M0onkist]

Given that they're from the same litter I wouldn't worry at all. I got three girls who were from the same litter (I realize the gender's different!), and they came with a completely super-solid dominance structure - Petrie was the leader, and the other two were very happy with it. They were introed to my Mr. Honeycomb, who was a very sweet neutered manrat and who had lost his 'leader' a month or so before.

It does help, if you decide to add other rats, to know who's a leader and who's a follower. I knew going in that with two/three sisters (we did want to get girls), there would be a leader who could make Mr. Honeycomb happy - he was miserable when there was no one to tell him what to do and what not to do. Long story short, he was easily four times the size of any one of the girls, but Petrie planted her paws on his head when she first met him, and he melted into a deliriously happy puddle of goo. He was head over heels for his girls. When he passed it didn't change the cage dynamics at all - what has changed the dynamics was Petrie passing from pneumonia. Neither of her sisters grew up having to learn to be an alpha, but they've largely sorted things out for themselves (there's the occasional mild tiff, just a bit of slapping without any real hurts).

What I find is interesting is that hormones can sometimes make a male crazy enough that he becomes an 'irritable alpha' - Mr. Honeycomb hit puberty and went from being neither leader or follower to terrorizing Chance, his cagemate. So we snipped certain bits off (to prevent any fights and to restore harmony), and lo and behold Mr. Honeycomb was actually a devoted follower - he had no aspirations to lead, and in fact all his aspirations seemed to be bent on following a leader, any leader, don't make him the leader please!

So to actually answer your questions! I wouldn't introduce a female 'just' to mellow out the group - given that they're from the same litter, I'd bet a lot of money they're just fine the way they are, they have a pecking order that was probably established shortly after birth. Doesn't mean you can't add other rats, of course!

 

[EDK]

Do females that aren't spayed are always likely to get tumors? Or is it just common with females but not a constant occurance? Or in otherwords, when I get 2 girls (still debating on either girls or boys at this point) I have no intentions of breeding them so dont find it neccissary to neuter them, but if they get sick without it, then should I consider boys?

 

[Joanne]

Where you are a newbie to rats, I would just start off with the three boys. I wouldn't worry too much about fighting among siblings. Just go with the flow. If it does become a problem 6 months down the road, then you can address it by neutering. But it may never be an issue.
I have a mixed group, but I neuter everybody. That way I never have to worry about pregnancies, and the risk of tumours is greatly reduced. Rats are generally going to die from one of three things:
1. Cancer (a tumour)
2. COPD/pneumonia
3. Heart problems
Taking stock of my female ratties who have died, causes of death:
1. Mimi-tumour
2. Kira- respiratory
3. Minnie- respiratory
4. Cassie - tumour
5. Jazzy -tumour
6. Lily - respiratory
7. Taffy - stroke/tumour
8. Tia - respiratory
So do they die mainly from tumours? Not in my experience....

 

[thinking]

Thanks Joanne that was very helpful to see the list laid out like that and to get a better idea of how common some of these ailments are.

 

[M0onkist]

Hmm... Just thinking of my crews (sorry about the thread-jacking!).

Princess: Ear infection or PT (vet was $#@$^%#!@^, and that was before I met the rat shack!)
Plumeria: heart attack
Chance: cumulative series of strokes
Mr. Honeycomb: heart failure
Petrie: Pneumonia

Of the 5 girls I've had, 2 were/have been spayed, but only one ever developed any tumors (ironically, one that was spayed). But Princess was largely the exception to the rule, because she was a pet store rescue who'd had an umbilical hernia (the reason for adoption), and I think her genes were awful to begin with - her tumors happened long after she was spayed.

For tumors, a lot depends on the genes, and with pet store rats, it's almost impossible to know what those genes are, or what the parents die of. With my Pips, I have more luck than most, since they were rescued with their mother, sister, grandmother, and grandfather/father, so I have a very good sense of what things they're predisposed to (among other things, pulmonary abscesses and some risk of mammary gland tumors). Rescue rats can provide more information in that sense - especially if they were rescued with one or more parent, you can usually (with the help of the rescuer), see a bit down the line in terms of what problems they might face.

The trick, for females, with mammary gland tumors is that they *are* operable - PT is a death sentence, albeit a slow one (Pituitary tumor, in case you were wondering - the most common non-gender-specific tumor in rats).

 

[EDK]

that list is very helpful, and i'm not really a newbie, just been out of the game for a long time is all. All i've known in the past was boy rats, hence why I was looking into a girls for a switch up, but I might go for boys since my first plans aren't gonna happen, we'll see. Good luck to you thinking