Archie's octopus tumour - back?

[Kibble]

I found a squashy, attatched lump on Archie's abdomen/groin on Wednesday, about the size of a thumbnail and height of a pea. I took him to the vet that afternoon. They operated on him this morning, and when they opened him they found a huge, sprawling mass with a necrotic, pus-filled centre. They removed as much as they could, then started to sew him up - but as they pulled the sides of the wound together, pus leaked out of his penis. They pressed his bladder and found only urine, so they searched around and found more tumour wrapped around his urether. The incision looks like it was enormous, almost from the bottom of his ribcage to his anus.

After he came round, he developed pica. He's been eating strands of hay and pieces of cardboard litter all afternoon (as well as oats and brocolli). The vet said this was fine in moderation, and it would help get his intestines moving again. He has defecated and urinated without difficulty. I've got antibiotics and painkillers to give him from tomorrow morning.

Has anybody else seen an octopus tumour like this? What might the prognosis be? How can I tell if urine is leaking into his body cavity? The vet made him another appointment for Saturday, and instructed me to call at once if anything happened - they seemed relieved that he'd survived the operation after it turned out so radically different then they'd expected.

It's been a scary day!

 

[hopefloats]

The pus would lead be to think it is an abscess. I know tumors can go necrotic but the one i seen didnt have puss just black skin.

the pica should stop in a few hours one of my girls walked around with a piece of litter in her mouth it was the funniest thing ever. I think it lasted for us till almost midnight. did he get pain meds? with a sore that big he will need them, also some antibiotics if infection is in there already>

 

[ratkin412]

Oh, how horrible for you both. I am so glad that you got him in to see the vet in time for the best possible outcome of the surgery, and I am so glad the vet found what else was going on while Archie was still in surgery. Best wishes to you and Archie... you both will be in my thoughts.

 

[Kibble]

Yep, he got antibiotics and painkillers. I didn't see the excised mass myself, and it wasn't sent for testing, so I guess it could have been anything, but the vet felt it was a tumour that had outgrown its blood supply and died in the middle. I feel awful that he had that huge thing growing in him - it must have been there for ages - he must have been opened up like a lab specimen during surgery.

He still hasn't lost his appetite for hay - he's holding it in both hands and nibbling it like a strand of spaghetti. I think I'll get him some spinach tomorrow to try and distract him from it. I sort of can't believe that just twelve hours ago he was opened up from breakfast to behind, and scraped out so thoroughly that he is visibly thinner, and now he's clambering all over the cage as if nothing had happened. Rats are amazing.

 

[SQ]

All the best to you and Archie.
Hope he makes a full recovery :thumbup:

 

[Joanne]

Wow, it sounds like a big ordeal. I'm glad he made it through the surgery OK. Sometimes narcotics will cause pica behavior. What kind of pain meds is he on? I hope he continues to recover well...

 

[Kibble]

From tomorrow it's only metacam for dogs, so I hope he'll handle that a bit better. I think the general anaesthetic really did a number on him, plus my vets shoot up all their surgical patients with a massive 24-hour dose of painkillers (which they find reduces stitch-pulling in all species [although rats get internal stitches and glue on the skin]).

 

[jorats]

Poor little guy. Hopefully they got it all, if not, strong antibiotics for a couple of weeks.
If he's peeing inside his body, that's bad and he will go septic. But that's worse case scenario and I wouldn't worry about that.

 

[mamarat]

Your poor boy, sending healing vibes.

 

[Kibble]

So, Archie went for a post-op checkup this morning, and he seems to be healing beautifully - no signs of leaky tubes so far! The pica cleared up, and he can't get enough of antibiotic bananas, but he absolutely refuses to take the metacam. He's clearly in some pain - looks frisky enough, but he keeps his back legs together as he runs around and hops like a rabbit, and thinks quite hard before climbing up the side of the cage. I think I'll get him some fishpaste and see if he'll take it with that.

 

[lilspaz68]

They probably gave him an opiate pain med and that often causes the pica...I am glad he is doing so well... :thumbup:

 

[Kibble]

I checked the itemised bill, and it turns out they gave him ketamine! The vet said yes, that often causes them to hallucinate after surgery! I have no idea what the party crowd sees in it.

 

[lilspaz68]

The next time you have surgery, request they do not use ketamine, its too dangerous to use for rats these days now that we have lovely inhalant anesthetics.

 

[Joanne]

I'm glad he seems to be recovering well. I hope you find something he will take to give him some pain relief.

 

[hprats]

Crazy!! That is an intense surgery. I'm so glad he's doing well, and I hope he heals up great!

My rats all REFUSE to take Metacam too...I have to syringe it in, and they are experts at spitting out meds, so they probably only ever get half the prescribed dose (but I don't want to give them more than that, and risk overdose, which may make them hate it even more).

 

[Kibble]

Today, for the first time after his surgery, I gave Archie a good (gentle) feel around the middle - and felt a soft lump directly under the scar down the middle of his belly. Is this just all the healing stitches inside him, or is the tumour already coming back? It felt a little warm, but he was shaved there, and people say hairless rats feel hot. He's going to the lavatory normally, and gobbling up all his antibiotics. I'm going to call the vet tomorrow morning, but I'm worried about him...

 

[mamarat]

It could still be swelling from the operation. Some rats have an allergic reaction to sutures too. Good luck with your little sweetie.

 

[jorats]

I agree with mamarat. Wait and see, it might just be the swelling or even scarring.

 

[lilspaz68]

I third the suggestion, it could just be body fluid pooling (the body usually reabsorbs seromas), reaction to the stitches, etc...he sounds like he's acting well :thumbup:

 

[Kibble]

Phew, I spoke to the vet who did the operation, and she agrees with you (although, being a medical professional, she didn't rule out the tumour). Archie himself is looking absolutely super, running about the place and climbing like crazy. He's slurping up the antibiotic banana as fast as I can give it to him, which seems pretty unusual - With the other three rats I've had to give antibiotics, I had to change the flavour-hiding substance at every dose. Archie did become suspicious of the spoon he was being offered the medicine on, but started to take it eagerly again when it arrived on a finger; he then became suspicious of why only HE was getting banana, when Rollie was being restrained elsewhere. Now I'm giving both of them banana, he seems satisfied.