An alternative to lumpectomy?

[victoria]

As some of you know, I am the proud mama to seven rats, 6 girls and one neutered boy. All of them came to live with me between December and February and are between a year and a year and a half old. So, especially given the fact they are all very close in age and I was afraid of having lump after lump, I went to the vet last week with Monty and brought up the possibility of spaying all of them. She recommended against it, in part because two of my kids are on long term antibiotics for respiratory issues and she is afraid that surgery may compromise immune systems and compound the problem. I also asked about an implant (Deslorelin) I heard they were studying for use in rats, but she told me they were only testing it on rats with tumors at the moment, not as a preventative measure.

Of course, a week after the conversation with my vet, I find a lump on Sophie on Saturday night. :sad3: So, I went in yesterday, expecting to get a pre-op check-up and talk to the vet about the implant. He (I go to the vet so often - I'm not even exaggerating - that I see two vets at the same practice) said they have found Deslorelin stops tumors from getting bigger and prevents them from returning or others from growing, so we decided to just try the implant for now and keep an eye on the lump (it's the size of a large blueberry), if it gets bigger, then we'll remove it. The vet said it was completely safe (still trying to confirm that), the only question was the effectiveness, although they have had the other rats they have tried it on.

He checked his calendar and was able to fit me in that very afternoon, the procedure itself only took about 15 minutes. She was slightly sedated with isofluorane gas, a small area in between her shoulders was shaved, and then the implant was inserted. He glued the insertion point shut (it's about 2mm long) with skin glue, and she was ready to go home.

So far so good. No swelling or redness at the site, and no signs of pain. Sophie, like all my rats that had surgery (although her procedure was minor), is very confused and unsure why I would put her through such an ordeal, but I am doing my best to convince her I am still the 'good guy.' What's surprising is that when we had her out for playtime today, we could not find the lump That's not what we were expecting (although it would be amazing), and we may be mistaken as we only checked her quickly because she was squirmy and we did not want to stress her.

Best of all, the procedure cost $185, plus check-up, considerably less than a tumor removal ($300 and up), which would also require a check-up. It's still in clinical trials, my vet said they are testing it at the faculty level (Université de Montréal here, probably University of Guelph in Ontario) and at the clinic I go to, but if they're successful, it would offer a safer, more cost effective treatment option for tumors.

 

[SQ]

Can you pm me the name and contact info for your vet?
I would like to pass that info on to my vet.
Do you know if this is for all tumours or just mammary tumours?
thanks

 

[eagle]

That's great news. Keep us posted on.

 

[Rachael]

This is really interesting

 

[jorats]

Great news! I can't wait for the results to come in with Sophie, do keep us updated. This could be a way to go for rats that are too old or mildly sick.
I'll also at some point discuss this with my vet.

 

[victoria]

I'll pass along my vet's info to you SQ, but from my discussion with my vet, he worked very hard to get the implants into the clinic so that they could conduct the trial, so unless your vet did the same, they would not be an option for you until the clinical trials are concluded. These particular implants contain 4.7 mg of Deslorelin and are marketed to temporarily castrate dogs. They are believed to be effective for a year (perhaps more) in rats, which would bring Sophie to 30 months old. I quickly did some research and found that the implants are being tested with many species, and while I didn't find a study specifically looking at the rats, they were tested for toxicity on rats in many cases with very few side effects.

 

[jorats]

So that would mean that every year the rat would need another procedure to put another implant? Is this used to prevent or it's better for an already progressed tumour? Will they eventually look at using it as a form of prevention?

 

[victoria]

They aren't testing it as a preventative measure, but only for rats that already have tumors. When I asked the first time, the vet said they may test it for prevention in the future, depending on the results of these trials.

The implants are only guaranteed to regulate hormone levels for a year, but in a case like Sophie's, that may be nearing the end of her lifespan. If it works and she reaches 30 months of age, I will get another implant. I don't know if the first would have to be removed or not before implanting another.

ETA: The vet also said that the implant would not only help with mammary tumors, but also with uterine ones as well. When I asked about pituitary tumors, he said it was hard to say because no one has been able to pinpoint a cause.

 

[jorats]

This is really interesting and I'm so glad you are a part of the study. Keep us posted.
Sending lots of luck and well wishes to Sophie!

 

[Rachael]

Could you find the lump on Sophie?

 

[SQ]

Very interesting!
I will certainly be passing the info on to my vet.

Unfortunately this won't help Jessie with her lung tumour.

 

[victoria]

No, I think it would only help with hormone related tumors. Sorry.

 

[victoria]

It's been about a month now and I thought I would update this thread.

A week after I found Sophie's tumor, I found one on Butterscotch so I now have two test subjects here.

Sophie and Butterscotch have both healed completely and their hair is all grown back so that you cannot even tell they had a procedure done. Both of their tumors do not seemed to have grown since we found them (about the size of a peanut or almond) although because Sophie is a bit plumper her's feels different from one day to the next.

At the moment I am trying to introduce each of their respective groups to each other and at the beginning of intros (we're in our fourth week) I noticed that both of them seemed to be a little wheezy. I took them to the vet because they all became a little sneezy (probably in part because of the stress of intros) and mentioned it to him but he said it was likely a coincidence and didn't think it had anything to do with the implants or the procedure because they used so little isoflourane gas to sedate them. They were all put on antibiotics and they all got better within a week so at least that was nipped in the bud.

 

[jorats]

Keeping my fingers crossed that this works out.
I'd say it was probably the intro that got their myco flaring up.

edited to add: did you notice any change in behaviour?

 

[victoria]

I've been on the lookout for it and I'm not sure... I never knew when Sophie went into heat before (I'm actually not sure if she even goes into heat anymore) and because Butterscotch is now the Alpha and does not get mounted often I don't know if she's gone into heat since either. I'm inclined to say she hasn't but I can't be certain. She certainly still enjoys mounting everyone else when it's their turn.

I'm also going to add that a day or two after Sophie's implant I noticed some vaginal discharge. The vet had asked me if she had any at the time I took her in with the lump and I said I hadn't (I never have before nor have I been asked) but I definitely noticed some on my pants after she's been hanging out on my lap for a while. I told the vet and he asked me about the amount, colour, frequency, etc. and he said it may be an indication that there's also something going on in her uterus. I haven't seen any since and she seems fine so we are hoping that the implant will help with any possible issues if there are any.

 

[victoria]

It's been a really long time since I've updated this thread...

I now have 5 girls with implants, soon to be six - Sophie, Butterscotch, Ava, Annabelle, Oreo, and (soon) Bandit.

Sophie got her implant first when she developed a lump in her right armpit in May of 2010. In July the lump started to grow and another appeared on her collarbone, so we booked her to have it removed. She did well in surgery, the analysis on the lump showed that it was a benign mammary tumour, but the vet wasn't able to remove the second because the first was so far spread out. After healing she went back in to remove the second, which we then found out was actually an abscess (that grew despite the fact I had tried compresses and she was on antibiotics for two months). In the fall I found two more lumps, one on her side and one on near hind leg. Sophie was on antibiotics from July to November-ish and when I took her off she sprouted another lump on her throat, which we assumed was an abscess, so I took her to the vet, he discovered another lump (which he doesn't suspect is mammary) on her belly near her urethrae and he put her on antibiotics again. 3 months and many antibiotic combinations later, the lump kept growing so we had it aspirated, and learned that it is not an abscess but a malignant tumour. The vet now believes 5 of the 6 lumps she has are malignant, the only one that is probably a mammary tumour is a very small, slow growing one in her other armpit. She is just starting to be impacted by the lumps, particularly the one on her belly that is pushing her urethrae to the side and the one on her throat that get in the was sometimes. She is 29 months old and not healthy enough for surgery though - her body seems to have trouble regenerating and she is not healing from small scratches or growing back hair as fast as she grooms it off - so we're just keeping her happy and comfortable as long as we can.

Butterscotch also had a lump in her armpit and got her implant a few weeks after Sophie. I had the lump removed in August because I thought it was growing, but I'm not sure if I actually needed to because it was still very small. She is 26 months now and still acting like she is 9 months old now, no more lumps and really healthy.

Ava developed this weird "bubble" thing on her chest in August so I got her implanted. I was hoping it would also help with her aggression issues, but apparently spays do not have the same effect as neuters. The "bubble" has shrunk and become denser, and is now a lump about the size of a grape. She is about two years old (just a guess) hasn't developed any more lumps and is relatively healthy, except for a recurring mild URI.

Annabelle developed a lump in October and got implanted then. It was the size of a blueberry at the time, today it's maybe twice the size. Annabelle is 23 months old and is finally recovering from an URI she has had forever and also has no more lumps.

Oreo was implanted the same day as Oreo because every other girl in the cage had gotten tumours and I wanted to try to prevent her getting any. I did find two small ones in January though, on her armpit and on her belly. They are very small and seem to be growing very slowly. Oreo is 26 months old, in amazing health, and is even more active than her sister Butterscotch.

Bandit will soon be losing her sister Amy to an inoperable throat tumour and intros have not gone well with my big group so she will be joining my spayed female and intact male pair. I have no idea how old she is (I would guess 15-18 months) but she is not the hardiest rat health wise and is currently on meds for 6 weeks. I was saving to spay her and her sister but since she's not super healthy and I need her fixed ASAP I am going to implant her instead.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with them. It is so much easier and less stressful than a spay - literally a check up and a 5-15 minute procedure afterward and they're ready to go home. They're not very cheap ($220 including an exam and sale tax) but cheaper than a spay for me ($440 with an exam and sales tax). I have to ask my vet if it's possible that they last for more than a year, that would make them even more attractive.

 

[racehorse87]

I am currently considering getting my rats implanted, so this information has been very helpful.

Victoria -- can you send me the info about your vet? I am also in Montreal and have just been to see someone at the "The Montreal Bird and Exotic Veterinary Hospital" about my rats. I am curious to see if this is the same veterinarian that has treated your animals.

 

[victoria]

It's the same vet. I don't think any other vets around here do it, although some of the vets there also fill in at the clinic in Ste. Hyacynthe so perhaps there as well. I've been meaning to update this thread for a while but am just side tracked by life. I'll send you a PM.