Alphonse... PT Or HED + Age?

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Scythe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
727
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canda
First off, I'll say I'm gonna be really bad at explaining what's going on because I've honestly got no idea how to! So I've also taken a video and some pictures to maybe help...

I noticed a while ago when I first got Pip(Just over a month ago, I think?) that during Intros, after a certain amount of time, Al would stop interacting with anyone and just go snooze spread out in a corner of the tub. I always thought, "Hmm, thats unusual." But he's old(over two years-- I think he's just over 26months, if I'm not mistaken?), and he's less active of he and Ed, so I didn't think much because hey, Intros must be exhausting for them.

Then one day two weeks ago, I put a chinchiller slab in the cage with them because we were getting an awful heat wave and I figured they wouldnt use it, but it'd be there in case. To my shock, Al wouldn't get off it. I think it was a coincidence because even on days I don't put it in the cage, he sleeps in the same corner. Spreads out, legs sprawled, so still that when I wake up I think he's dead. Never touches the hammocks anymore, VERY rarely goes into the houses, and it's become even more rare to see him on the top level of the CN. It's almost uncommon now to see him awake. Things that once made him jump up and hurry to the door? They don't, now.

During intros in the little familiar-ground-intro-space in my room, he'll go hide 15 minutes in, now. He'll find somewhere the other rats arent going, and spread out and snooze. If I over a treat, he'll take it in his mouth and go spread out and lay down again -- with it still in his mouth, or he'll push it out with one hand and then go still again, so I can't even try the cheerio test on him. He'll pretty much dive into a bowl of ensure, though, still.

When he walks, it's ALMOST like he's dragging himself. It's so low to the ground and he does drag his tail, now.

I don't know his weight because my scales batteries died, but he's about 26-28 months old, ish. Give or take, I don't know when he was born.

edit to add: He also sort of wobbles when he walks, and falls easily from low heights like the top of the house, from my ****s into my hands(like rolls face first into them), off the litter box, etc. :(

DSC04354.jpg

This was the other day. He has a lot of trouble getting up there, and usually falls off when he tries to climb down.

DSC04363.jpg

Went straight to here when I put him back in the cage after tonights intros.

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Then after I took that picture, he (I was shocked) climbed slowly up to the top shelf and curled into the sputnick.

[youtube:1i371kl1]4jAD_As165o[/youtube:1i371kl1]
 
No idea what HED stands for or what it's symptoms are for sure, I do know that he does have cataracts and is most likely closer than normal to being entirely blind, which might have something to do with his not wanting to move much and keeping his body lower to the ground (to better pick up vibrations etc).

Sorry I'm no help...he is a handsome old man though..
 
rmrekc said:
No idea what HED stands for or what it's symptoms are for sure, I do know that he does have cataracts and is most likely closer than normal to being entirely blind, which might have something to do with his not wanting to move much and keeping his body lower to the ground (to better pick up vibrations etc).

Sorry I'm no help...he is a handsome old man though..

Yeah, he had cataracts when I got him when he was 6 months old. :( Poor guy.
 
Awww, that is sad...poor little guy...always sad to see a young'un with such ailments, even if it's not physically "hurting" him/her...
 
rmrekc said:
Awww, that is sad...poor little guy...always sad to see a young'un with such ailments, even if it's not physically "hurting" him/her...

Yeah. It's sad, but it was cute in it's own way. if he got really excited to run for treats, he'd usually run into something like my foot or another rat or the wall... or a door. :giggle:
 
*snickers* that WOULD be amusing...poor guy! (I say "poor guy, but yet like to torment my deaf cat at times, haha).
 
The video looks like Alphonse might have PT, the drooling though I've only seen in rats choking. Wish I could be of more help. Good luck with your sweetie.
 
mamarat said:
The video looks like Alphonse might have PT, the drooling though I've only seen in rats choking. Wish I could be of more help. Good luck with your sweetie.

Yeah, it wasn't during out time, only when I went to go check on him before bed -- so maybe he'd eaten something, but he didn't seem too bothered. He was just laying around.. I placed in him a low hammock and he just hung his head out of it and stayed there in his usual, uh, manner of lazying around..

I've never seen HED or PT in person, but the way Al is so low to the ground is just... it's so weird, and the way he pushed away the puff treat the one time... :sad3:
 
:(
Wish I could help. It must be hard to know something's wrong but not know what it is or what to do. :hugs:

He's a gorgeous little cutie though.
 
jorats said:
Oh dear, it does look like PT. I've also had a couple of rats be wet under their chin. It looks pretty advanced too...poor thing.

It doesn't feel advanced... Like he can still move around, get around, eat, all on his own. It's just he seems so sluggish and disoriented. I thought it might be HED and lazy old age becuase he passes the cheerio test. Today I've seen him in that side position I see a lot of pictures of PT rats laying in... On their side against something, legs out, snoozing away.

And he's even still got his fight for telling Pip off because god forbid Pip go near him... Should I still continue trying to intro Pip to them?
 
In the video, it looks like he's having a hard time with the treat? To me, advanced is when they have lost total end mobility and can hardly manage the front too. I'm just going by the pics. If he's still eating well and moving about pretty good, then it's not so bad. You could even ask your vet for prednisone to help him better. You could even try bromocriptine, some people have had great success with that drug.
 
jorats said:
In the video, it looks like he's having a hard time with the treat? To me, advanced is when they have lost total end mobility and can hardly manage the front too. I'm just going by the pics. If he's still eating well and moving about pretty good, then it's not so bad. You could even ask your vet for prednisone to help him better. You could even try bromocriptine, some people have had great success with that drug.

He's not interested in the treat in the video. He was only interested in any treats at the beginning of intros(which were before the video). When he lost interest he'd sort of take it in his mouth, wander off and lay down with it in his mouth and then sort of push it out and away with one paw.
 
Is that a normal behaviour for him? When mine don't eat their treat and keep it in their mouth, that's a sign of something's not right.
 
jorats said:
Is that a normal behaviour for him? When mine don't eat their treat and keep it in their mouth, that's a sign of something's not right.

Not particularly, no. He still comes running for them, and hasn't turned one down SINCE last night, but that was the first time i've seen him do it. He's gladly taking treats today, but now takes them faaar away and sits very far back on his butt with his feet out like a V, but uses both his front paws no problem.
 
These are two more pictures from today. I found him sleeping like this and it looked weird to me. The second he was in the process of getting up because the flash woke him.

DSC04365.jpg


DSC04366.jpg
 

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